In this episode of the Hyperengage Podcast, Adil Saleh sits down with Lincoln Murphy, VP of Customer Experience at ListKit, to explore how customer success and post sale GTM are changing in a world of digital engagement and AI tools. Lincoln explains why obsessing over churn keeps teams stuck, and makes the case for focusing on customer outcomes and the overall experience instead. He talks through how COVID era shifts and everyday use of ChatGPT have raised expectations for speed to value, and outlines how ListKit runs a split model with self service GTM customers on one side and high touch done for you cold email programs on the other.
He breaks down his approach to goal discovery, defining goals as an objective, a timeframe and the deeper why, and shows how that drives onboarding, adoption and ongoing performance reviews that often happen asynchronously via Loom instead of long calls. Lincoln shares how ListKit uses AI behind the scenes so teams can handle far more work while still leaving human conversations where customers need to feel seen, heard and validated. Adil and Lincoln close by digging into lifetime value and expansion through a planned Ascension Path, treating churn as a symptom to study rather than the main target, and reflecting on why the customer success software category still struggles to define itself between happy customers and revenue growth.