Catherine chats with Jacqui Dillon 8 weeks into her role as Kaiwhakahaere Matua. As the international winds of uncertainty blow over the world, Jacqui grounds us by speaking about ripples of change, cultural shifts, and people power. Jacqui shares her vision for humanity as part of Amnesty's 60th birthday celebrations (https://amnesty.org.nz/60th-bday/). And guess what? Jacqui is also a psychotherapist; hear how that work connects with human rights and global systems.