In Part Two of this Lives in Leadership conversation, Major General Andrew Hocking joins Dr Lucas Marie to discuss organisational learning, national preparedness, and the role of social science in Defence. Drawing on his Vanguard paper, Preparing for the Future: Key Organisational Lessons from the Afghanistan Campaign, Major General Hocking reflects on the courage it takes for institutions to learn openly — and the political, cultural, and structural barriers that often get in the way. He explains how Defence must move beyond isolated, “whole-of-government” thinking to embrace a whole-of-nation approach, in which collaboration across the public, private, and community sectors strengthens Australia’s resilience in times of crisis. The discussion also highlights the value of diverse perspectives — including anthropologists and other social scientists — in understanding human behaviour and improving operational strategy. Hocking argues that meaningful learning and effective leadership depend on embracing tension, humility, and open dialogue across disciplines.