In this episode there are dead mules, dead asses, and penguins. These are all sort of related to one another in the conversation Prof. Gabriele has with Ellen Arnold, but mostly we talk about how the Middle Ages had much more science than the 0% they supposedly did. People really cared about the natural world! They investigated it! It’s neat!  Guest Ellen Arnold is a senior lecturer at Ohio State University where she teaches medieval and environmental history courses. Her research has focused on the ways that pre-modern people understood the natural world around them and how they told stories about why nature mattered. See more at her website. CreditsHost & Executive Producer: Matthew Gabriele. Find him on Bluesky @profgabriele.com or his homepage profgabriele.com Editor: Julia SchifiniMusic: “Sleeping Bags” by OTEArt: Ulysses GabrieleMultitude: https://multitude.productions  Find American Medieval OnlineWebsite: AmericanMedieval.com Patreon: patreon.com/AmericanMedieval Insta: instagram.com/americanmedieval TikTok: tiktok.com/@americanmedieval YouTube: youtube.com/@AmericanMedieval Bluesky: bsky.app/profile/americanmedieval.bsky.social  About Us American Medieval is a podcast about the Middle Ages, but with an American twist. Each week, joined by expert guests, we’ll explore either some fascinating part of the medieval world, or some way Americans have used this period to help them understand themselves.  After all, if America has never been modern, it’s because we’ve always been slightly medieval. Want to become a sponsor of American Medieval? Head over to https://multitude.productions/ads  Sponsors Spirits is a history and comedy podcast focused on everything folklore, mythology, and the occult, told through the lens of feminism, queerness, and modern adulthood. Every week mythology buff Julia and her childhood best friend Amanda get together to learn about a different story from mythology and folklore over drinks. That's everything from the mythological origins of major franchises like Lord of the Rings and Wonder Woman, to modern urban legends, to a roundup of werewolf stories from around the world. Dive in at spiritspodcast.com, or search for Spirits wherever you download your podcasts. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.