What if the goal isn’t to change minds about issues—but to change minds about each other?  Episode Overview Host Wendy Wollner talks with Bill Doherty, family therapist, professor emeritus, and Co-Founder of Braver Angels, about practical ways leaders, teams, and clinicians can repair trust across deep political divides. Bill shares ground rules that make hard conversations possible, the difference between optimism and a choice for hope, and how therapists can serve as “citizen bridge-builders” at work, at home, and in their communities.  What You’ll Learn * Why polarization blocks solutions—and how “respectful rules” reopen dialogue * A simple reframing: change minds about people, not just policies * How to listen when you’re triggered (even for therapists) * The line is behavior, not opinion: how to hold strong views respectfully * Practical on-ramps for clinicians: from self-checks in session to moderating public workshops * Why hope is a decision leaders can make—and model  Episode Highlights 00:35 – Wendy’s intro: “You messed up my brain—in a good way.” 00:43 – Bill’s background: citizen therapist; co-founding Braver Angels 02:44 – Polarization as the barrier to solving other problems 03:42 – Holidays & politics: when silence helps—and when it harms 04:34 – Therapists “forget” to use listening skills on politics 06:05 – Holding ourselves to higher standards in heated conversations 06:37 – Case study: liberal & conservative college students, shared humanity 07:21 – Ground rules: topic ≠ the line—behavior is the line 09:56 – “We’re not changing issue-minds; we’re changing minds about each other” 10:18 – Pronouns, signals, and unintended exclusions for clinicians 11:44 – Hope as a choice, not mere optimism 13:37 – How small the truly hateful fringe likely is—and the “inner othering” we all carry 15:02 – A new clinician role: become a bridge-builder (and how to start) 16:06 – “Every family has an Uncle Fred… and a Cousin Jessica” 16:47 – Story: a landlord’s transformation—“There are people in power who want us to hate each other. Let’s not do it.” Meet the Guest Bill Doherty, PhD is Professor Emeritus at the University of Minnesota, a licensed family therapist, and Co-Founder of Braver Angels, the nation’s largest cross-partisan volunteer movement to bridge the political divide. He designs evidence-informed workshops and trainings that help people talk—and work—across difference.  Tools, Frameworks, or Strategies Mentioned * Ground rules that center behavior (no interrupting/name-calling) * “Change minds about each other” reframing * Self-regulation for triggered listeners (therapist or not) * Braver Angels workshops, e-courses, and moderator training (free for members)  Closing Insight & CTA Hope is a choice. Choose it—and model it—by creating respectful structures for hard conversations at work and at home.  Resource Links * Braver Angels (home): https://braverangels.org/ (https://braverangels.org/) * Get Involved (overview of roles): https://braverangels.org/get-involved/ (https://braverangels.org/get-involved/)  * Become a Moderator (training details; free):