In this thought-provoking and deeply human conversation, Kevin Rice sits down with Amanda Slavin, educator, author, consultant, and creator of the Seven Levels of Engagement, to unpack why engagement, not productivity, is the real engine of learning, leadership, and parenting. Amanda shares the origin story of her life’s work, starting with her own childhood report cards that all said the same thing: “Amanda talks too much.” What teachers saw as disruption was actually early evidence of her lifelong obsession with connection, curiosity, and conversation. That spark eventually led her to become a teacher, earn a master’s in education, study pedagogy across wildly different school environments, and discover a taxonomy that would shape the next decade of her career. Together, Kevin and Amanda explore how the Seven Levels of Engagement help decode what’s really happening in classrooms, teams, and families. They talk about why kids melt down when parents get distracted, how quiet quitting begins long before someone stops performing, and why the real opposite of engagement isn’t disengagement, it's apathy. Amanda also opens up about how she applies her framework at home with her five- and three-year-old, and why she collaborates with them on consequences instead of handing down punishments. She explains why connection is the cheat code in parenting, why incentives rarely create long-term motivation, and how repair, presence, and respect model emotional maturity for kids who rely on our nervous systems to regulate. From bedtime battles to bored employees, from distracted leaders to overwhelmed parents, this episode is filled with real stories, practical tools, and the kind of grounded insights that make you rethink how you show up. Whether you lead teams, raise tiny humans, or both, this conversation gives you a blueprint for building cultures of connection in every corner of your life. In this episode, you’ll learn: • Why engagement is not binary and why each of the seven levels matters • How extrinsic rewards shortcut compliance but reduce creativity, curiosity, and connection • The difference between consequences and punishments and why one teaches while the other controls • How a parent’s distraction can drop a child from “inspired and connected” to stressed and overwhelmed • Why apathy, not disengagement, is the real danger zone in the workplace • How to spot quiet quitting before it happens • How to create psychologically safe cultures where people feel seen, valued, and motivated • Why presence and accountability matter more than perfection in parenting • How the same engagement principles used at Google and Coca-Cola apply to bedtime routines • Why respect is the foundation of every relationship from toddlers to executives Top Takeaways: • Distraction destroys connection faster than anything else. • Consequences teach; punishments shame. • Kids’ regulation relies on our regulation, until age 25. • Engagement is nuanced; productivity alone is not a measure of alignment or meaning. • Quiet quitting starts with feeling unseen long before performance drops. • Intrinsic motivation fuels creativity, collaboration, and long-term commitment. • Culture becomes real when values are measurable, not decorative. • Repair is more important than getting it right the first time. • Presence is the foundation of trust at home and at work. • Apathy, not disengagement is what leaders must prevent. About Amanda Slavin: Amanda Slavin is an educator-turned-consultant, author of The Seventh Level, and creator of the Seven Levels of Engagement framework. With a master’s in education and years of experience inside classrooms across diverse environments, she spent a decade helping global brands, including Google, Coca-Cola, and Nestlé, build...