Norin Taj takes us on a journey from and back to Pakistan in this conversation. We start with growing up in her homeland, a place that contributed to her identities of being South Asian as well as Muslim - two complex and intricate entities that cannot be separated. Moreover, she shares stories of teacher training and teaching in Pakistan before immigrating to Canada, a move that provided her the opportunity to continue being an educator and a researcher. All of these experiences led her to return to Pakistan for her research that leaves us pondering two key questions: Should education focus on numbers/budgets or on actual education for the most marginalized? and how can girls’ education make use of better terms for empowerment? * Biography: Norin Taj is a doctoral candidate in Educational Leadership and Policy with a specialization in Comparative, International and Development Education at OISE. Her research interests are in the global policy discourse on girls’ education and its understanding in the South Asian context, particularly in Pakistan. When not working, she enjoys painting and writing poetry. *Cite this podcast (APA): Ortega, Y. (Producer). (2020, September 30). CES4E2 – “Empowering” girls education in Pakistan. https://soundcloud.com/chasingencounters/ces4e2-empowering-girls-education-in-pakistan *Sources: 1.Monkman, K., & Hoffman, L. (2013). Girls’ education: The power of policy discourse. School Field, 11(1), 63-84. 2. Khoja-Moolji, S. (2015). Suturing together girls and education: An investigation into the social (re) production of girls’ education as a hegemonic ideology. Diaspora, Indigenous, and Minority Education, 9(2), 87-107. 3. Meyer, J. W., & Jepperson, R. L. (2000). The ‘actors’ of modern society: The cultural construction of social agency. Sociological theory, 18(1), 100-120.