In this conversation with my Celtic Shamanic practitioner peer Judy Crooknorth, we get real about what it takes to hold sacred space—without making clients carry our unfinished stories. Judy is a trained therapist and intuitive healer, and together we unpack the gritty middle ground where nervous-system repair meets soul work: how to tell when a pattern is emotional vs. spiritual, why discernment matters more than “quick fixes,” and the lifelong practice of becoming a neutral vessel for healing. We talk boundaries (saying no when you’re not the right fit), the savior archetype and ego checks, and why embodiment is the point—those moments when a client stops mid-sentence and says, “That’s not my voice anymore.” We also wander the Celtic Wisdom Wheel, reframe the Void (from terror to pure potential), and trade very human rituals for finding beauty in the mundane. What you’ll hear How to discern spiritual roots vs. emotional expression (and why it’s often both) Soul retrieval, power retrieval, and why talking about change isn’t the same as embodying it Ethics in spiritual practice: trauma literacy, referrals, and refusing the “one-weekend shaman” myth Working with the savior complex without burning your work—or your people—down The Void as fertile ground + seasonal medicine from the Celtic wheel It’s an honest, grounded look at the intersection of therapy, spirituality, and the courage it takes to walk beside others without losing yourself. Links to Judy’s podcast & IG below: Judy on IG – The Seer and Shaman Judy's Podcast on Spotify - The Seer's Sanctuary Purchase your Human Design Energetic Blueprint Schedule a Kairos Session Schedule a Human Design Reading Access your free Human Design Chart   Questions? Send an email to inquire@adriannemcdonald.com