In a special episode of Giving Back Is Dead, recorded during Paris Art Week at Palais de Tokyo, we bring together Guillaume Désanges, President of Palais de Tokyo, and Abby Pucker, Cultural Producer and Founder of Gertie, for a conversation about the evolving future of cultural funding.

The discussion explores how institutions and cultural leaders are moving beyond traditional patronage models—challenging the notion that access to the art world requires immense wealth or exclusive connections. As Pucker explains, her work with Gertie centers on creating open, immersive cultural experiences—where people engage directly with artists, exhibitions, and each other through shared journeys, community-driven membership models, and collaborative events.

Désanges offers the perspective from within a state-backed institution navigating the balance between public and private funding. For him, the coexistence of both creates not fragility but stability—a dual foundation built on diversity, shared responsibility, and renewal.

Together, they point toward a new paradigm for cultural ecosystems: one that replaces exclusivity with inclusion, and patronage with participation.