For a long time, marriage counseling was seen as a last-ditch effort—something couples did when they were already on the brink of divorce. While that stigma has lessened, many couples still wait way too long before seeking help—statistically, an average of seven years after problems first begin. In this episode, Aaron and I get real about our own journey with marriage counseling and introduce you to someone who’s been instrumental in our growth: Dr. Jonathan Cude, our longtime marriage counselor. We sit down with Dr. Cude to talk about why he got into counseling, what struggles he sees couples facing most often, and what advice he has for those looking to build a strong foundation in their relationship. We also share the heart behind Pillow Talk, our new e-course designed to help couples navigate conflict and cultivate a thriving marriage. Neither of us had a lot of healthy, long-lasting marriages to look to for guidance, so we wanted to create something that combines our personal experience with expert insight. If counseling feels out of reach or intimidating, Pillow Talk offers another way to access practical tools and wisdom to strengthen your relationship. Join us for this honest and insightful conversation about what it really takes to build a marriage that not only lasts—but is actually fulfilling 20+ years down the road. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices