In this conversation, Mable and Sahej discuss the evolution of DeFi, focusing on Sahej's journey from traditional finance to founding Avantis. They explore the innovative trading models Avantis offers, including fixed fee and zero fee perpetuals, and the strategic decisions behind building on the Base platform. The discussion also delves into liquidity provisioning, market maker incentives, and the unique features of Avantis, such as LP tranches and risk management. Sahej shares insights on tokenomics, community engagement, and future plans for scaling open interest, emphasizing the importance of building a sustainable and innovative DeFi ecosystem.