Gill Phillips, former Director of Editorial Legal Services at The Guardian, joins Sarah to explore the legal, ethical and human dimensions of journalism under pressure.

For over a decade, Gill sat at the heart of the Guardian’s most high-stakes investigations - from the publication of the Wikileaks documents to the Edward Snowden files - where each legal decision carried profound consequences for national security, public interest, and press freedom.

In this frank and quietly powerful conversation, Gill reflects on:

• The tension between caution and courage in editorial decision-making
• How the lawyer-editor relationship shapes what the public gets to know
• The emotional and ethical weight of defending stories that challenge power
• Why she believes in being “useful, not just right”
• The growing threats to independent journalism - from SLAPPs to surveillance

They discuss the value of institutional memory, the risks of over-sanitising legal advice, and the quiet leadership it takes to stand behind stories that make waves.

This episode is essential listening for anyone working at the intersection of truth, risk and public accountability - and a masterclass in integrity under fire.

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