The Two Mikes today spoke to economists Ian Fletcher and Marc Fasteau (co-authors of the 2025 book Industrial Policy for the United States: Winning the Competition for Good Jobs and High-Value Industries, to discuss their work advocating for a robust U.S. industrial policy to counter decades of free trade failures and revive manufacturing. Key Topics Covered: Trade and Tariffs: They argue that unfettered free trade has hollowed out American industry, benefiting rivals like China through subsidies and barriers. Fletcher and Fasteau endorse strategic tariffs as a core tool to protect key sectors (e.g., steel, high-tech), penalize unfair practices, and encourage reshoring—framing them not as inflationary relics but as selective levers for fair competition, potentially exempting allies like South Korea while targeting adversaries. Alternative Energy Sources: The conversation highlights industrial policy's role in advancing clean tech, such as batteries and renewables, by federal support for commercialization (beyond R&D). They cite examples of government-funded innovation pipelines to secure U.S. leadership in energy transitions, reducing reliance on imported supply chains. Government Subsidies: Emphasizing "selective intervention," they call for expanded subsidies—including loans, tax credits, and procurement preferences—to nurture high-value industries. This builds on Biden-era initiatives like the CHIPS Act but pushes for comprehensiveness, including WTO exit if needed, to create good jobs and foster innovation without distorting markets broadly. The authors draw on historical case studies and data to substantiate their critique of neoliberal economics, positioning industrial policy as essential for national security and prosperity SPONSORS Our Gold Guy: https://www.mygoldguy.com www.TwoMikes.us