In this, the fifteenth episode of the Ocean Governance Podcast we discuss two recent articles that engage with seas and oceans as resources. One does so by challenging, at a fundamental level the notion that nature, including species and ecosystems represent potentially useful functions and services, and critically inquiries what such a view does with the way we live with or in nature. It looks at the history of a teleological view of nature, i.e. essentially the idea that every creature has a purpose and a given role to perform in nature. A view that, the article contends, is very much alive today with managers dealing with nature protection. The core message of the article is that humanity was reached a point where we need to choose between living in nature or wholly become the gardeners of a new post-nature, with full responsibility for the structure and function of essentially manmade ecosystems designed to meet our various needs. The second article in a way embraces the view of the ocean as a resource – though not necessarily a manmade one – and goes on to discuss how it can be managed in a fair and sustainable manner. At centre stage is the phenomenon of ocean grabbing, which can take many different forms, and the potential role of marine spatial planning (MSP) in preventing, or potentially exacerbating this challenge to fair ocean access. The focus is on MSP in the “global south” – an often-neglected perspective – with the aim to help preventing some of the negative consequences that may follow if MSP is implemented without due consideration to local contexts and preconditions. The article is a clear example of the recent turn to more critical approaches in the scholarly discussion on MSP, but without in any way losing sight of the practical requirements and implications of MSP as a practical tool. Read together, these two articles help us challenge or nuance our thinking about ocean resources and MSP as an instrument for their rational and sustainable use. The utility of that should be beyond doubt in an age where we are increasingly placing ourselves as managers of the very planet on which we live. The two articles discussed in this episode are: J. M. Weslawski, Why Does the Seal Exist? Teleology in the Present-Day Human Relation to Animals B. Queffelecand others, Marine spatial planning and the risk of ocean grabbing in the tropical Atlantic, ICES Journal of Marine Science (2021), fsab006, https://doi.org/10.1093/icesjms/fsab006 If you want to comment on the content or otherwise communicate with us, please do so by sending an email to: aron.westholm@law.gu.se. We hope that you will enjoy listening!