Ashok Gupta is the creator of the Gupta Program and a pioneers in ME/CFS recovery programs and brain- retraining. In this episode Lindsay and Gupta discuss the biological nature of the illness and how he has found the insula and amygdala in the brain are at the root of the problem . Lindsay challenges Ashok on the cellular issues and how the vagus could be central to what’s going wrong in the body. They also discuss how pacing, somatic work, and parts work relate to healing. Ashok has had impartial clinical trials conducted on his program and they discuss what the results mean to the western medical system. The Gupta Program is now an app and there is a 28 day free trial and a money back guarantee if you try it for 6 months and see no improvement. Check it out here if you are interested: https://guptaprogram.com/ . If you would like help choosing the right online program for you or want 1-2-1 coaching set up a free call with Lindsay at lindsayvine.com or purchase the CFS programs guide (version 3) here: https://healwithliz.com/programs-guide/