Laurent sits down with Bruce Douglas, CEO of the Global Renewable Alliance, for a live conversation from COP30 in Belém, Brazil.

They explore how COP30 is structured, the role of the Global Renewable Alliance, and the dynamics among participants. The 800-pound gorilla in the room—the United States—hasn’t derailed the negotiations, but one might ask: does it really matter? The real action, Bruce explains, takes place in the Blue Zone and the Green Zone, rather than in the endless debates over whether the final text will call to “phase out,” “phase down,” or “phase up” fossil fuels.

With investments in clean technologies now triple those in fossil fuels, the global momentum toward renewables seems unstoppable.

The COP text, increasingly, feels symbolic—if not irrelevant. Together, Laurent and Bruce celebrate the ongoing success of bottom-up implementation and the steady deployment of proven technologies, rather than top-down grand initiatives.

They also touch on a new forestry initiative, TFFF—dubbed “WTF-FF” by Laurent—which, they suspect, may fade away like tears in the rain. Packed with anecdotes about the Amazon rainforest, chaotic logistics, Saudi Arabia’s surprising investments in boxing, and other quirky insights, this episode strikes an optimistic tone.

Whatever COP30’s final declaration may say, one thing is clear: renewables have already won.