Guest: Kathy Xu, Founder of The Dorsal Effect, Singapore-based eco-tourism leader and shark conservation advocate.Episode Summary: In this episode of Rethink What Matters, Paul talks with Kathy Xu, the founder of The Dorsal Effect, an eco-tourism initiative in Singapore, aimed at protecting sharks while offering alternative livelihoods for shark fishermen in Lombok, Indonesia. Kathy shares insights into the complexity and ethics of eco-tourism, sustainability challenges, and her journey from an enthusiast to a leading advocate in shark conservation. With an increasing global awareness of climate impact and marine conservation, Kathy addresses how eco-tourism can either positively impact or unintentionally harm these causes if not carefully managed.Kathy's mission at The Dorsal Effect is to provide shark fishermen with a viable income alternative by employing them in eco-tourism, taking travelers on snorkel and boat tours instead of shark hunts. This effort not only reduces shark fishing but also raises awareness among travelers about sustainable tourism. Kathy describes her personal struggles with eco-tourism’s limitations, such as the impact of flights and the challenge of educating her customers, especially schoolchildren, on the importance of sustainable choices. As she points out, even eliminating seafood from the trips often requires explanation and patience, as younger travelers may initially resist.Key Points:Defining Eco-Tourism and Its Challenges: Kathy discusses the blurred boundaries of eco-tourism and the frequent misuse of terms like “greenwashing” and “blue-washing.” For her, eco-tourism should reduce harm to the environment, yet she acknowledges the contradiction in flying tourists to remote locations, which increases the carbon footprint. Kathy reflects on her unease, saying, “The whole idea of flying to Lombok in itself already makes me uncomfortable. Like, Oh, do we really need to take another flight? Can we justify this flight?”The Core of The Dorsal Effect: The Dorsal Effect represents more than just tourism; it’s a practical solution for environmental preservation. Kathy hires former shark fishermen to lead eco-friendly snorkeling trips. This creates a sustainable livelihood for these fishermen and reduces the need for shark hunting. Kathy explains that she started this after witnessing firsthand the harm of conventional fishing practices on shark populations, especially in Lombok.Impact of Climate Change on Marine Life: Kathy highlights how unpredictable climate patterns increasingly impact marine species, complicating fishing conditions for local communities who rely on the oceans. Noting a Florida study on tiger sharks, she points out that warming oceans are changing marine habitats and disrupting conservation efforts. As Kathy states, “After designating marine protected areas, we found that because of climate change, the sharks would move north, leaving the protected zones, making them less effective.”Educational Outreach and Community Engagement: Through talks in schools and companies, Kathy shares her passion for shark conservation and ecotourism. School talks often revolve around fun facts about sharks and ecosystems, while her corporate presentations focus on environmental impact and sustainable business models. Her efforts aim to plant seeds of environmental consciousness and inspire positive changes in attitudes, especially among youth. Beach cleanups, trash audits, and the no-seafood policy on her tours serve as practical lessons for tourists, teaching them the value of conservation in a hands-on way.