Ever wondered if we should have tested the new hospital space before moving in? Thinking that new piece of equipment won’t work for your current workflow? Want to implement a new checklist but not sure if it will work?    In this episode Vic and Ben speak with Andrew Petrosoniak and Christopher Hicks from Advanced Performance. Chris and Petro are both emergency physicians who have built an impressive repertoire of using simulation to explore and improve performance of team, systems and spaces in healthcare.    Our conversation is wide ranging, offering perspectives on why this use of simulation is still relatively limited, as well as how the processes for this technique are evolving.  We talked about design thinking and simulation, the use of framework analysis, the Macleamy curve, and the concepts of ROI for this work.    Ben shared his favourite book on design principles. We referred to some other excellent podcasts including Paul Phrampus talking about connecting with hospital executives on One Million Lives, and our own episode of Simulcast discussing Nora Colman’s paper saving $90 million testing a hospital before it was built.    Lots more on the Advanced Performance website.    Happy listening