In this episode Jess Bowie talks to Tom Brown, author of The Mind of the Minister, about the unique relationship between senior civil servants and politicians.

Tom explains how officials and ministers can build close and productive working relationships, what happens when it all goes wrong, and what he's observed about relations between civil servants and Labour ministers a year into the new government's term.

We also find out how he went about writing his book, and which of the many senior civil servants and ministers he spoke were the hardest to pin down.

Host: Jess Bowie, editor-in-chief, Civil Service World

Recorded and produced by Podot