In episode three of It's Personal, created in partnership with KPMG, Jess Bowie and Jo Thomson continue their exploration of what makes great public services in the digital era.

Jess and Jo hear first from three citizens, some of whom have seen an improvement in public services, others who have been let down.

Our main interview this episode is with Kate Caulkin, a former senior civil servant and HR and project delivery expert who is now people and operational management insights director at the National Audit Office.

We also hear from Keith White, a digital transformation leader who was (at the time of recording) head of digital experience at Northern Trains.

Hosted by Jess Bowie, editor-in-chief of Civil Service World, and Jo Thomson, partner – customer transformation at KPMG.

Recorded and produced by Podot.