How did a game designer with "terrible English" and no business background convince Sony to sign a three-game deal after 19 rejections?
In this episode of Gaming Founders Podcast, hosts Eden Chen (CEO of Pragma) and Kevin Zhang (Partner at Upfront Ventures) interview Jenova Chen, founder and Creative Director of thatgamecompany, creator of acclaimed titles like Cloud, Flow, Flower, Journey, and Sky: Children of the Light. After earning a computer science degree in Shanghai, Chen moved to Los Angeles to study at USC's Interactive Media Division, where his student project "Cloud" became a viral sensation. His games have garnered tremendous acclaim—Journey achieved the highest historical aggregate rating on Metacritic for any PlayStation Network exclusive title, with Entertainment Weekly calling it "a glorious, thoughtful, moving masterpiece."
The conversation explores Chen's emotional design philosophy and entrepreneurial journey—from pitching 19 publishers before securing a Sony deal to raising venture capital. Named one of Variety's 10 Innovators to Watch and featured in MIT Technology Review's TR35 list of top innovators under 35, Chen offers unique perspectives on market opportunities in gaming's emotional territories. His expertise in positive psychology and design anthropology has led to pioneering work creating experiences focused on connection rather than violence, revealing how persistence and willingness to explore uncharted creative territories drove his remarkable success.
Jenova Chen is the visionary founder and Creative Director of thatgamecompany, creator of acclaimed titles Cloud, Flow, Flower, Journey, and Sky: Children of the Light. After earning a computer science degree in Shanghai, Chen studied at USC's Interactive Media Division where his student project "Cloud" became a viral phenomenon. His games have earned numerous accolades, with Journey achieving the highest historical Metacritic rating for any PlayStation Network exclusive. Named to MIT Technology Review's TR35 list of top innovators under 35, Chen specializes in emotional game design and positive psychology, pioneering experiences that explore connection rather than violence.
Discussion points:
(00:00) Jenova's journey - from childhood gaming passion against his parents' wishes to USC film school and the groundbreaking Cloud game that changed everything
(16:07) Breaking through - viral success of Cloud, emotional player feedback, and relentless pitching to 19 publishers before securing a Sony deal
(24:04) Building the company - finding trusted partners, establishing thatgamecompany, and securing crucial funding after Journey's success
(34:03) Emotional design philosophy - approaching games as an emotional business and identifying the vast untapped market beyond male-oriented experiences
(47:12) Industry perspective - the challenges of innovation versus "quick follow" games, and why most developers avoid uncharted emotional territories
(50:33) Lighting Round Questions - wisdom and reflections - archaeological interests, dream collaborations, and the entrepreneurial lesson that challenges and "enemies" ultimately make the journey worthwhile
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The Gaming Founders Podcast is brought to you by Eden Chen, CEO of Pragma, and Kevin Zhang, Partner at Upfront Ventures.
Pragma is a venture-backed backend game engine founded by engineering leaders who built platforms for major live service games including League of Legends, Fortnite, Destiny 2, and Plants vs. Zombies 2. Eden Chen is a serial entrepreneur.
Upfront Ventures has backed startup teams across technology sectors. Kevin Zhang leads gaming investments at Upfront Ventures, including Pragma.
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