In this episode of the International Foundation for Integrated Care's podcast series, 'Measuring the Impact of Integrated Care,' Niamh Lennox-Chhugani, is joined by Ellen Nolte Director of the NIHR Policy Research Unit in Policy Innovation and Evaluation, a collaboration between the LSHTM, the Care Policy Evaluation Centre at the London School of Economics and Political Science, and University of Glasgow Ellen Nolte is an expert in public health and her research primarily focuses on health services, international healthcare comparisons, and performance assessment, particularly addressing the needs of people with complex and long-term health issues. Her work also explores person-centred health systems and the role of health system factors in improving care coordination and integration across sectors.     Key Discussion Points   [5:30-9:00] Defining impact in the context of integrated care, including the OECD's broad definition of impact and the nuances of treating integrated care as an intervention. [9:00-12:00] Discussion on the difference between evaluation impact and the beneficiaries' perception of impact, stressing the need to clarify these differences. [12:00-15:00] Examination of the policy perspective on integrated care, focusing on cost reduction and the importance of considering the broader impacts beyond just cost savings. [15:00-18:00] Ellen emphasises the need for context-specific evaluation and the challenges of measuring integrated care across different settings and baselines. [18:00-21:30] The importance of understanding patient and staff experiences and the relational aspects of care in evaluating integrated care. [21:30-24:00] Discussion on the significance of allowing space and time for learning and making mistakes in integrated care implementation and evaluation. [24:00-27:00] Highlighting the shift towards longer-term contracts in integrated care to provide stability and enable local systems to evolve.