We’re joined by Mehran Gul, author of The New Geography of Innovation, who paints a detailed picture on how innovation power is shifting from Silicon Valley to unexpected places - China, Singapore, Switzerland, and beyond. As a former advisor at the World Economic Forum and World Bank, Mehran has spent years studying the frontier of technological development, institutional evolution, and national strategy. His research spans eight countries across three continents summarised in his new book which challenges Western innovation orthodoxy—and offers a compelling vision for a more distributed, more inclusive innovation future. We dive into: -How Chinese talent is shaping the Global AI landscape -Why innovation isn’t just unicorns and startups, but includes state-led infrastructure -Singapore’s invisible excellence: no unicorns, but global digital leadership -Switzerland’s surprising dominance in R&D and public transport innovation -The cultural and structural flaws in Europe’s startup scene -What stable governance, national purpose, and civic trust do for innovation -What people get wrong about AI, disruption, and the future of work Key Takeaways from the Episode: 1. China Is No Longer a Copycat:China's MSRA lab published the most cited scientific paper of the 21st century—training a generation of AI researchers that now dominate the global talent pipeline. 2. Singapore and Switzerland Show Us a Different Model:Forget unicorns. These countries focus on systems-level innovation—urban planning, transport, digital governance—that directly improve lives. 3. Government Can Drive Real Innovation:Singapore’s GovTech and digital twin strategy prove that with the right institutions, even small countries can lead the world. 4. Europe's Cultural Challenge:While Europe has capital and talent, its innovation suffers from risk aversion, private mindsets, and a fear of visible failure. 5. Stock Options as a Cultural Lens:The difference between PayPal's billionaire mafia and Skype's 11 millionaires reveals how equity culture influences ambition and scale. 6. Unicorns Are a Poor Innovation Metric:Mehran critiques the obsession with unicorn counts and valuations. True innovation should be measured by quality of life, productivity, and institutional resilience. 7. The Real AI Debate Isn’t Job Loss:We overhype automation and job loss. The real question is: who controls the models, who benefits, and how do we ensure global equity? 8. Innovation Will Be Multipolar:The future isn’t a US-China binary. Countries like Canada, South Korea, and Estonia are becoming quiet powerhouses of tech progress. 9. Infrastructure Is Innovation:Switzerland’s trains, Korea’s chip fabs, and China’s urban ecosystems all show that building real-world infrastructure is just as innovative as launching apps. 10. Innovation Must Be Contextualized:What works in San Francisco doesn’t always work in São Paulo or Jakarta. Mehran urges us to localize innovation strategies for real impact. Timestamps: (00:00) – Introduction to Mehran Gul and the new geography of innovation(02:45) – Why China’s MSRA lab transformed the AI talent pipeline(06:15) – Singapore’s silent innovation model: no unicorns, huge impact(10:00) – Switzerland’s success: trains, CERN, and the quality of life index(14:45) – The structural flaws in Europe’s innovation culture(20:00) – PayPal vs. Skype: why startup equity design matters(24:30) – How Canada built world-class AI labs with public funding(28:30) – Unicorns vs. real progress: rethinking innovation metrics(33:00) – What most people get wrong about AI and automation(37:00) – National strategy, political trust, and innovation performance(42:00) – Innovation across the Global South: case studies and insights(47:00) – The future of innovation in a multipolar world(51:30) – Final thoughts on building innovation systems that serve humanity Join us for a powerful, myth-busting journey across the world’s new innovation hotspots—with one of the most ins