In this episode of The Inspire Podcast, Bart sits down with Alex Draper, founder and CEO of DX Learning, to tackle a critical issue in the workplace: toxic leadership. Alex starts with a simple truth—bad leadership is toxic and has negative impacts. So why does it persist when no one sets out to be a bad leader? Alex explains that most toxic leadership isn’t intentional—it’s unintentional, and it stems from a lack of self-awareness and training. He discusses how leaders need to provide Clarity, Autonomy, Relationships, and Equity (his CARE model) and shares how to begin fostering CARE-driven leadership through data gathering, practical steps, and clear ways to measure progress. Alex’s insights are essential at a time when employees are demanding more from their leaders—and when the opportunity exists to lead in a way that truly inspires. If you're a leader looking to create a healthier workplace culture and drive better results, this episode is for you. Learn more about Alex at https://www.dx-learning.com/ and https://alex-draper.com Connect with Alex on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-draper/ Show notes: 1:00 Introducing Alex Draper 1:32 What does DX Learning do? 1:56 Purpose is to wipe out toxicity in the workplace 2:55 How to get leaders to behave in positive ways 4:05 How to go into a company knowing that your specialty is toxic workplaces 4:21 Some people are truly toxic and try to cause stress 5:00 There are narcissists out there 6:00 There's no flawless team or human 6:19 Toxicity exists in every team 7:32 What are the signs of a toxic leader or culture 8:23 Levels of silence indicate a problem 8:56 Ideas and challenging the status quo - is that happening? 9:36 Lagging indicators: retention issues 10:39 What is a typical engagement like? 10:56 Engineering mindset - data! 11:59 What data should we gather? 12:28 70% of variance in employee engagement is down to the managers 12:41 If the team has an issue, it's more than likely the leadership does 12:51 Bottom up approach is not the right approach! 13:15 How to gather the data? 13:28 4 dimensions of high performing leadership/teams 14:54 How "Equity" fits in 16:48 Cognitive dissonance - gaps 17:07 Bart asks for an example of a gap dissonance between leaders and employees 19:21 Advice on collecting "listening data" 21:02 How can leaders provide more clarity? 21:49 Example of a leader working on clarity 24:18 The projection bias 24:48 Heuristics - brain shortcuts -cause issues 25:44 Example of 'autonomy' problem 26:01 Psychological safety = Autonomy 31:46 The "Equity" piece 33:05 Equity is the lagging indicator 33:34 How do you measure equity? 33:43 Fairness orientation 34:23 Equity is the output of the three controllables 34:53 Re-measure! 35:07 What should the measurement frequency be? 35:31 90 days for teams 36:32 Teams are always adapting 37:19 Change is the one consistent 38:22 How do you feel about the state of leadership in 2025 and onwards? 39:56 AI and how it will fit in the mix — emotional intelligence as the distinguishing factor 40:21 Where can people go to find out more? 40:48 Thank Yous 41:35 Show outro