In this debut episode of It Depends Podcast, co-hosts Matt Healey and Tenille Moselen dive into the murky middle of evaluation practice—where complexity thrives, answers are rarely black and white, and good questions matter more than quick fixes. They’re joined by Eleanor Williams, Managing Director of the Australian Centre for Evaluation, for a wide-ranging and thoughtful conversation on evidence, ethics, and embedding evaluation in the heart of public policy. Together, they explore: What makes evidence fit for purpose—especially in fast-paced policy environments The importance of meaningful relationships between evaluators and commissioners The role and realities of quasi-experimental design in the public sector Thinking around everyday ethical dilemmas evaluators face. This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating the tension between rigour, relevance, and real-world constraints. It’s honest, nuanced, and full of insight. Some of the resources mentioned in the episode are linked below: The Australian Centre for Evaluation homepage, and specifically the Commonwealth Evaluation Toolkit Relational Commissioning blog post by Eleanor Williams and Skye Trudgett The UK Government’s Magenta Book – see including Annex A on different methods for use in evaluations The webpage with more on the Australian Public Sector Evaluation Network (APSEN). Thanks for listening to the It Depends Podcast! You can find out more about First Person Consullting on our website, follow us on LinkedIn, or sign up to our semi-regular newsletter.