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The POWER Podcast
POWER
204 episodes
1 week ago
As electricity demand from data centers continues to surge, a persistent question has dogged the industry: Are residential ratepayers footing the bill for massive tech infrastructure? According to Amazon Web Services (AWS) and an independent study it commissioned, the answer is a definitive no. As a guest on The POWER Podcast, Mandy Ulrich, senior manager of energy and water for Americas East at AWS, outlined the company’s energy strategy and discussed findings from a study by Energy and Environmental Economics Inc. (E3) that examined how Amazon data centers impact local power systems. Study Finds Data Centers Generate Surplus Revenue The E3 study evaluated Amazon data centers across a diverse set of utility territories, including large investor-owned utilities such as Pacific Gas and Electric (PG&E) and Dominion Energy, mid-size utilities like Entergy, and cooperatives such as Umatilla Electric Cooperative in the Pacific Northwest. “The simple answer is that Amazon data centers are not being subsidized by other utility customers,” Ulrich said. The study projects that Amazon’s data centers will generate $33,500/MW of surplus value in 2025, increasing to $60,650/MW by 2030. For a typical 100-MW Amazon data center, that translates to $3.4 million in surplus revenues in 2025 and approximately $6.1 million by 2030. These surplus funds—revenues above the utility’s regulated rate of return—can be used by utilities to modernize grid infrastructure, improving reliability for all customers. Grid Investment Benefits All Customers The study found that Amazon data centers are driving investments in grid infrastructure that support not just their own operations but also local residential and commercial growth. Ulrich pointed to Entergy Mississippi as a prime example, where the utility is using investments from Amazon and other large customers to fund a $300 million “Superpower Mississippi” grid reliability campaign—at no cost to residential customers—targeting a 50% reduction in outages within five years. Innovative Rate Structures Prevent Cost-Shifting While the E3 study validates that existing rate policies have been effective in preventing cross-subsidization, Ulrich emphasized that AWS continues to work with utilities on innovative approaches to ensure large industrial customers pay their fair share. She highlighted a Northern Indiana Public Service Co. (NIPSCO) project as a “groundbreaking model.” Under this first-of-its-kind agreement, Amazon is investing in 3 GW of electrical capacity, with 2.4 GW dedicated to data center operations and 600 MW reserved specifically to support grid reliability for all NIPSCO customers. The structure creates a separate generation company (GenCo) that operates under a “commercial contract term,” Ulrich explained. By operating as a separate entity, GenCo isolates the cost of new growth to data centers. “The data center companies that drive new demand for electricity will fund the generation and transmission infrastructure they require, ensuring that regular customers don’t shoulder those costs, even if the customer leaves before contract completion,” NIPSCO said in a Nov. 24 press release. “NIPSCO’s existing customers will have no financial responsibility for powering Amazon data centers,” Ulrich said. NIPSCO said, “This structure is expected to provide value to customers by generating approximately $1 billion in cost savings that will be returned to current NIPSCO customers as credits on monthly electric bills over the project’s 15-year duration.”
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As electricity demand from data centers continues to surge, a persistent question has dogged the industry: Are residential ratepayers footing the bill for massive tech infrastructure? According to Amazon Web Services (AWS) and an independent study it commissioned, the answer is a definitive no. As a guest on The POWER Podcast, Mandy Ulrich, senior manager of energy and water for Americas East at AWS, outlined the company’s energy strategy and discussed findings from a study by Energy and Environmental Economics Inc. (E3) that examined how Amazon data centers impact local power systems. Study Finds Data Centers Generate Surplus Revenue The E3 study evaluated Amazon data centers across a diverse set of utility territories, including large investor-owned utilities such as Pacific Gas and Electric (PG&E) and Dominion Energy, mid-size utilities like Entergy, and cooperatives such as Umatilla Electric Cooperative in the Pacific Northwest. “The simple answer is that Amazon data centers are not being subsidized by other utility customers,” Ulrich said. The study projects that Amazon’s data centers will generate $33,500/MW of surplus value in 2025, increasing to $60,650/MW by 2030. For a typical 100-MW Amazon data center, that translates to $3.4 million in surplus revenues in 2025 and approximately $6.1 million by 2030. These surplus funds—revenues above the utility’s regulated rate of return—can be used by utilities to modernize grid infrastructure, improving reliability for all customers. Grid Investment Benefits All Customers The study found that Amazon data centers are driving investments in grid infrastructure that support not just their own operations but also local residential and commercial growth. Ulrich pointed to Entergy Mississippi as a prime example, where the utility is using investments from Amazon and other large customers to fund a $300 million “Superpower Mississippi” grid reliability campaign—at no cost to residential customers—targeting a 50% reduction in outages within five years. Innovative Rate Structures Prevent Cost-Shifting While the E3 study validates that existing rate policies have been effective in preventing cross-subsidization, Ulrich emphasized that AWS continues to work with utilities on innovative approaches to ensure large industrial customers pay their fair share. She highlighted a Northern Indiana Public Service Co. (NIPSCO) project as a “groundbreaking model.” Under this first-of-its-kind agreement, Amazon is investing in 3 GW of electrical capacity, with 2.4 GW dedicated to data center operations and 600 MW reserved specifically to support grid reliability for all NIPSCO customers. The structure creates a separate generation company (GenCo) that operates under a “commercial contract term,” Ulrich explained. By operating as a separate entity, GenCo isolates the cost of new growth to data centers. “The data center companies that drive new demand for electricity will fund the generation and transmission infrastructure they require, ensuring that regular customers don’t shoulder those costs, even if the customer leaves before contract completion,” NIPSCO said in a Nov. 24 press release. “NIPSCO’s existing customers will have no financial responsibility for powering Amazon data centers,” Ulrich said. NIPSCO said, “This structure is expected to provide value to customers by generating approximately $1 billion in cost savings that will be returned to current NIPSCO customers as credits on monthly electric bills over the project’s 15-year duration.”
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197. Debunking Nuclear Power’s Biggest Misconceptions and Why It’s Needed Today
The POWER Podcast
32 minutes 41 seconds
4 months ago
197. Debunking Nuclear Power’s Biggest Misconceptions and Why It’s Needed Today
Despite nuclear power’s unmatched ability to produce reliable, carbon-free energy at scale, it is often dismissed by clean energy advocates in favor of renewable resources like wind and solar. Cost arguments and public misconceptions around safety and radioactive waste have kept it out of many mainstream climate strategies. But as Tim Gregory argues in his new book Going Nuclear: How Atomic Energy Will Save the World, this exclusion may be the greatest obstacle to achieving net zero goals. In fact, Gregory says in his book “net zero is impossible without nuclear power.” “Claiming renewables on their own are enough to replace fossil fuels is underestimating the challenge of achieving net zero,” Gregory said as a guest on The POWER Podcast. “Fossil fuels have basically defined the world order for the last couple of centuries, and to think that we can replace them with wind power and solar power, which are fundamentally tied to the whims of the weather, and the rotation of the planet in the case of solar, is really underestimating the scale of the challenge,” he said. “We need power that comes in enormous quantities exactly where we need it and when we need it,” Gregory continued. “I don’t want to live in a world without solar panels or wind turbines, but to think that they can do it on their own, I think, is honestly naive. We need something that’s reliable to compensate for the intermittence of renewables, and nuclear power would be absolutely perfect for that.” Notably, innovative companies and many government leaders around the world are backing nuclear power projects. “Big tech in North America has really cottoned on to these small modular reactors,” said Gregory. “Meta, Google, Microsoft, and Amazon are all going to be using small modular reactors to power their data centers. … This isn’t just a pipe dream—this is actually happening now in real time. … It’s been very, very encouraging watching that unfold.” Public perceptions on nuclear power are also trending in a positive direction, and the movement seems to be bipartisan. “It’s very, very encouraging that more than half of people in the UK either strongly support or tend to support nuclear power. Strong opposition to nuclear power, according to the latest poll, is actually below 10%,” Gregory reported. “As such, the two major political parties in the UK—that’s the Labor Party, which is kind of our left leaning party, and the Conservative Party, which is our right leaning party—they both support the massive expansion of nuclear power, which is really, really nice actually. It’s maybe something that both sides of the political spectrum can agree on.” The same is true in the U.S., where both Democrats and Republicans have gotten behind nuclear power. A case in point is the Accelerating Deployment of Versatile, Advanced Nuclear for Clean Energy (ADVANCE) Act, which was signed into law in July 2024. It passed with overwhelming bipartisan support in the Senate with a vote of 88–2, and in the House of Representatives with a vote of 393–13. “If your politics has you more concerned with environmental stewardship, and climate change, and phasing out fossil fuels, and getting rid of oil from the energy system, then nuclear power is for you. But then at the same time, if your politics has you perhaps more leaning towards economic growth, and the economy, and prosperity, and all that kind of thing, then nuclear power is for you as well, because it provides the energy that enables that economic growth,” Gregory said. “And so, it’s actually very, very encouraging to see that, at least in most countries, nuclear power is not a partisan issue, which is all too rare in the world these days.”
The POWER Podcast
As electricity demand from data centers continues to surge, a persistent question has dogged the industry: Are residential ratepayers footing the bill for massive tech infrastructure? According to Amazon Web Services (AWS) and an independent study it commissioned, the answer is a definitive no. As a guest on The POWER Podcast, Mandy Ulrich, senior manager of energy and water for Americas East at AWS, outlined the company’s energy strategy and discussed findings from a study by Energy and Environmental Economics Inc. (E3) that examined how Amazon data centers impact local power systems. Study Finds Data Centers Generate Surplus Revenue The E3 study evaluated Amazon data centers across a diverse set of utility territories, including large investor-owned utilities such as Pacific Gas and Electric (PG&E) and Dominion Energy, mid-size utilities like Entergy, and cooperatives such as Umatilla Electric Cooperative in the Pacific Northwest. “The simple answer is that Amazon data centers are not being subsidized by other utility customers,” Ulrich said. The study projects that Amazon’s data centers will generate $33,500/MW of surplus value in 2025, increasing to $60,650/MW by 2030. For a typical 100-MW Amazon data center, that translates to $3.4 million in surplus revenues in 2025 and approximately $6.1 million by 2030. These surplus funds—revenues above the utility’s regulated rate of return—can be used by utilities to modernize grid infrastructure, improving reliability for all customers. Grid Investment Benefits All Customers The study found that Amazon data centers are driving investments in grid infrastructure that support not just their own operations but also local residential and commercial growth. Ulrich pointed to Entergy Mississippi as a prime example, where the utility is using investments from Amazon and other large customers to fund a $300 million “Superpower Mississippi” grid reliability campaign—at no cost to residential customers—targeting a 50% reduction in outages within five years. Innovative Rate Structures Prevent Cost-Shifting While the E3 study validates that existing rate policies have been effective in preventing cross-subsidization, Ulrich emphasized that AWS continues to work with utilities on innovative approaches to ensure large industrial customers pay their fair share. She highlighted a Northern Indiana Public Service Co. (NIPSCO) project as a “groundbreaking model.” Under this first-of-its-kind agreement, Amazon is investing in 3 GW of electrical capacity, with 2.4 GW dedicated to data center operations and 600 MW reserved specifically to support grid reliability for all NIPSCO customers. The structure creates a separate generation company (GenCo) that operates under a “commercial contract term,” Ulrich explained. By operating as a separate entity, GenCo isolates the cost of new growth to data centers. “The data center companies that drive new demand for electricity will fund the generation and transmission infrastructure they require, ensuring that regular customers don’t shoulder those costs, even if the customer leaves before contract completion,” NIPSCO said in a Nov. 24 press release. “NIPSCO’s existing customers will have no financial responsibility for powering Amazon data centers,” Ulrich said. NIPSCO said, “This structure is expected to provide value to customers by generating approximately $1 billion in cost savings that will be returned to current NIPSCO customers as credits on monthly electric bills over the project’s 15-year duration.”