In this episode of The Sacred Speaks, we explore what it means to embrace the full range of our humanity — including shadow, aggression, sexuality, contradiction, and desire — not as something to be corrected, but as something that longs to be understood. My guest, Dr. Douglas Thomas, joins me for a wide-ranging and thoughtful conversation about BDSM and kink through the lens of depth psychology. Rather than approaching these practices as pathology or spectacle, Douglas invites us to see them as symbolic, archetypal expressions of the psyche — places where power, surrender, ritual, and imagination reveal what we most often exile from consciousness. Together, we explore why sexuality and kink function as cultural “third rails,” why moral rigidity so often masks unconscious shadow, and how ordinary people can participate in extraordinary harm when disowned material is projected outward. This conversation moves beyond questions of “good” and “bad” and instead asks what wholeness actually requires of us — personally, culturally, and spiritually. At its heart, this episode is an invitation into a more courageous ethic: facing the darkness within so that we reduce hatred, loosen moral certainty, and relate to ourselves and one another with greater honesty, humility, and compassion. 👉 Key Takeaways Wholeness matters more than appearing morally “good.” Denying our darker impulses fuels projection, rigidity, and violence. Projection is largely unconscious, which is why “ordinary” people can participate in extraordinary harm while believing they are righteous. Sexuality and kink operate as cultural shadows, exposing fear, shame, and control dynamics we often refuse to confront directly. Cultivating curiosity instead of certainty around our shadow opens space for intimacy, ethical responsibility, and collective healing. Episode Timeline (00:00) — Introduction and orientation (00:46) — Announcements and resources (03:50) — Introducing Dr. Douglas Thomas (05:36) — Douglas’ background and personal journey (11:31) — Entering the leather community (14:44) — Masculinity and hyper-masculinity (23:39) — Transgressive necessities and psychological wholeness (32:37) — Sexuality, kink, and cultural taboos (36:27) — The complexity of kissing and biting (37:37) — Historical context of sexual disorders (39:35) — Fetishes and their psychological meaning (40:30) — Defining healthy and unhealthy sexual behaviors (42:52) — Introducing kink and BDSM (46:44) — The Theatricality of BDSM BDSM as embodied theater — where ritual, archetype, and imagination shape experience. (49:47) — Spiritual and Transformative Dimensions Erotic intensity as a doorway into altered states, presence, and transformation. (56:29) — Negotiation and Consent Consent as sacred contract — how boundaries and negotiation create safety and depth. (01:01:15) — Trauma and Empowerment Moving beyond simplistic narratives to explore reenactment, reclamation, and integration. (01:08:06) — Personal Reflections and Broader Implications What this work has revealed personally — and what it offers our wider culture. Connect with Dr. Douglas Thomas Website https://www.drdouglasthomas.com/ Practice (Jungian-based psychotherapy, Pasadena, CA): https://www.drdouglasthomas.com/abou Check out the book “The Deep Psychology of BDSM and Kink: Jungian and Archetypal Perspectives on the Soul’s Transgressive Necessities – https://www.drdouglasthomas.com/book Website for The Sacred Speaks: http://www.drjohnwprice.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com