How do you build a high-stakes thriller without losing sight of character? In this episode, Mark Philbin joins me to talk about Kill Them All, a plot-driven thriller built around a twelve-city murder spree and a protagonist who sees patterns others miss. We discuss where the idea began, how he shaped the “12 victims in 12 months” structure, and why grounding a twisty plot in character growth matters just as much as pacing. Mark shares how his radio background shaped his writing style, how he created a team of distinct FBI agents, and why trusting your outline — and your voice — is essential when you’re trying to stand out in a crowded thriller market. If you’re interested in building tense plots, crafting characters with agency, or simply love hearing authors break down their creative decisions, this conversation is a great one. Mark Philbin's book: https://a.co/d/gayzNd0 Follow Mark Philbin on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mphilbinwriter/ Join the After Show on Patreon and get early access to episodes, bonus after-show segments with guests, and my free novella Cognitive Breach. You’ll also be able to support the show and help me keep bringing on great thriller authors.https://patreon.com/markpjnadon Today's SponsorMark P.J. Nadon's novels including the Armageddon Descendants trilogy bundle: https://mybook.to/marksthrillers Authors: Want to be a guest?Apply here → https://markpjnadon.ca/the-thriller-pitch-podcast Explore thrillers by Mark P.J. Nadon:• https://markpjnadon.ca/novels/ Follow on Social:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/markpjnadonInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/mark_pj_nadon/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mark_pj_nadon