"It doesn't really matter to me how much resiliency you say you've built into your system, if you can't demonstrate the same rigor applied to how you think about humans and how they interact with the system."

In this episode, Matt Stine, author of Migrating to Cloud-Native Architectures (O'Reilly) thinks about how resiliency for long-lived, critical systems spans domains, includes humans and software, and how communication is key to getting distributed developers to embrace rigor.

Watch the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL-_pYrAvc0

Read Matt's book: https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/migrating-to-cloud-native/9781492047605/

Find show notes: https://www.pagerduty.com/resources/podcast/