Environmental historian Frank Uekötter joins Bill and Anders for a thought-provoking conversation about how good intentions and bad systems can collide, and what history can teach us about the moral boundaries of environmental action. Uekötter’s work, including The Vortex and The Green and the Brown, explores how modern environmentalism took shape in the twentieth century and how ideals of nature and progress became entangled with politics, ideology, and power. Together, they step back from today’s headlines to ask what happens when noble causes lose sight of their context, and how well-meaning people can drift into compromise when conviction overrides reflection.

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