This conversation includes mention of sexual abuse, violence, and addiction. Please listen in a way that honors your own well-being. You are invited to pause, to breathe, or to step away when needed.

Susan Pohl has lived several lifetimes—from witnessing snake handlers in her Southern Baptist childhood to working at Apple in its early days, earning her doctorate in ministry, and serving as a chaplain at a federal women's prison. Now coaching from Italy, Susan brings the kind of gentle humor and hard-won wisdom that only comes from walking through fire and finding grace on the other side.

In this conversation, Susan shares what it means to discover that "there are no wrong steps"—even when those steps led her to places she never imagined. From meeting Barbara, the "Buddhist bank robber" who reminded her of her own mother's sharp questioning, to learning that her job isn't to control outcomes but to show up with love, Susan's journey is about finding "the spark of God in everyone" (even when they're scary) and trusting that wherever you're going is exactly where you're supposed to be.

Fair warning: Susan's perspective on aging, purpose, and letting go of achievement addiction might just shift how you think about your own perfectly imperfect path. Plus, you'll understand why she believes we're all "in the hard part now"—and why that's exactly as it should be.