In this powerful conversation, Dr. Rob McKenna and Ron Carucci dive into the hidden forces that shape honesty, trust, and character inside organizations. Ron—co-founder of Navalent, bestselling author of To Be Honest, and one of the most unflinchingly candid voices in leadership—reveals what 30 years of research and experience have uncovered: honesty isn’t just a virtue. It’s a muscle. And organizations are either strengthening it… or eroding it every day. Together, Rob and Ron revisit the early days of their collaboration, exploring what it really takes to lead alongside others with authenticity, speed, and grace. They reflect on the messy, beautiful realities of partnership, the tension between pace and presence, the power of emerging leaders, and the organizational conditions that predict whether people will tell the truth—or hide it. Ron breaks down the four conditions that scientifically predict honesty and trustworthiness on a team, including accountability with dignity, say–do alignment, cross-functional integrity, and true transparency in decision-making. Through candid stories, personal reflection, and practical insights, this episode challenges leaders to examine not just who they are—but the environments they create. This is a masterclass in leading with integrity in complex times, delivered with the honesty, humor, and clarity that only Ron Carucci can bring. Leadership Takeaways 1. Honesty Is Not a Trait — It’s a Trained Muscle Leaders must practice honesty daily. Our brains are wired for truth, but our environments often pull us toward fear, self-protection, or silence. 2. Your Organization Is Shaping Honesty More Than You Realize There are four conditions that predict truth-telling or deception. Leaders either reinforce or erode integrity by the systems they tolerate. 3. Say–Do Alignment Builds (or Destroys) Trust Instantly If what you claim as a leader doesn’t match what people observe, you institutionalize duplicity. 4. Accountability Must Preserve Dignity When people feel seen and respected for their contributions, they are four times more likely to tell the truth. 5. Transparency in Decision-Making Reduces Underground Conversations If a room feels like orchestrated theater, people will seek truth elsewhere—usually in hushed corners. 6. The Seams of Your Organization Predict Integrity Cross-functional tensions are where the truth fractures first. Healthy seams = healthy trust.   For more on Ron's work click the links below: www.navalent.com www.tobehonest.net