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Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Legal Talk Network
446 episodes
2 days ago
Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.
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All content for Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer is the property of Legal Talk Network and is served directly from their servers with no modification, redirects, or rehosting. The podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by Podjoint in any way.
Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.
Show more...
Business News
Business,
Careers,
News,
Politics
Episodes (20/446)
Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Closing Out The Year With Mergers And Attacks On The Rule Of Law
Ho ho ho...gan Lovells merging. ----- A critical analysis of the best variety of Coca-Cola product gives way to a conversation about law this week. Cadwalader ends its tumultuous year -- involving a Trump administration capitulation and a series of defections -- with a big quasi-transatlantic merger announcement with cross-Pond Hogan Lovells. Christmas came early -- to the extent anyone thinks of U.S. News law school rankings as "Christmas" -- with a prediction about the new law school pecking order. And it looks like garbage at a time when those rankings may be more important than ever. Also, ICE appears to be publishing an enemies list? That doesn't seem great. All that and some thoughts on Alan Dershowitz writing a new book suggesting Trump might be able to get a third term despite the clear text of the Constitution.
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2 days ago
33 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
At Least The Robots In The Coming War Against Humans Will Understand War Crimes
If you want 2025 in a nutshell, it doesn't get much better than a blundering Secretary of Defense bragging that the Pentagon bought an expensive, bespoke AI bot and it immediately started calling out the Trump administration for committing war crimes. As the legal industry ventures into a hallucinatory AI frontier, it's worth remembering that sometimes the bots outperform the human lawyers. At the Supreme Court, Justice Sotomayor tries to convince her colleagues not to blow up the federal government over a theory concocted in the 1970s. Sadly, she's fighting the wrong fight. And in a world of mergers -- especially cross-border mergers -- we have a reminder that sometimes it doesn't work out.
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1 week ago
36 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
This Is Why We Have Bar Exams
And the DOJ continues to be a hot mess. ----- Kim Kardashian is trying to enter the legal profession without a law school education. The bar exam is a deeply flawed and largely unnecessary test, but the best case for having some kind of licensing exam is to make sure anyone taking an alternative path to a law license meets the minimum requirements for a lawyer. Meanwhile, the Trump administration continues to oscillate between bluster and blunder. Lindsey Halligan's doomed reign as quasi U.S. Attorney draws an ethics complaint. Luckily for her, the Virginia State Bar has no interest in doing its job. And Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche is threatening lawyers to stop pointing out DOJ mistakes.
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2 weeks ago
33 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
A Bad Week For Trump's Fake U.S. Attorneys
And a shorter summer associate program. ----- While most of us celebrated Thanksgiving, some of Trump's phony U.S. Attorneys were the real turkeys. First, a conservative leaning panel of the Eleventh Circuit affirmed the million dollar sanctions against Donald Trump and the parking garage lawyer he claims to have running the District of New Jersey. Then his Eastern District cosplaying prosecutor managed to lose not one, but two of the high profile revenge cases she brought. In other news, a major firm announced a new look summer associate program as it tries to deal with the law school recruiting free-for-all that everyone hates, yet no one seems able to do anything about.
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3 weeks ago
35 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Bonus Season Begins In Earnest
Bonuses and botched prosecutions. ----- Bonus season is underway, and Biglaw firms are lining up to reward associates for a year's worth of effort. The market scale -- unless some firm breaks rank and crashes the party -- tracks last year, which can be a bit anticlimactic, but with the economy possibly resting on the precipice of recession, this was probably all we could hope for. Also, we discuss Lindsey Halligan's epic fail in the James Comey case -- and we recorded this before the judge tossed the case. Finally, Judge Jerry Smith decided to commit his unhinged conspiracy theories to paper in a massive, doorstop of a dissent in the Texas redistricting case. And we discuss Thanksgiving sides.
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1 month ago
33 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Maybe The Legal Industry Has Just Lost All Sense Of Shame
But seriously, what would be a good legal dominatrix name? ------ Biglaw recruiting director out after racist rant goes public. A squabble between lawyers and their former firm presents important lessons on document management, but we spend most of the time wondering about the best legally themed dominatrix names. And we talk about Paul Weiss getting heckled at the New York Bar Foundation awards gala, providing one more embarrassing story to a rough year.
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1 month ago
31 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
If The DOJ Fails Another Time, They Win A Free Sandwich
And Kirkland tries a little tenderness. FedSoc does not. ----- The news that Kirkland had to teach its lawyers how to stop being mean to the private equity industry is incredibly funny. We're not saying Kirkland is getting a bad rap here, but when did corporate clients become such fragile snowflakes? The Federalist Society's annual meeting brought together the leading minds of the Trump legal movement to call for a "war" to impeach the federal judges -- many of them longtime conservatives themselves -- for not appropriately facilitating the administration. And the DOJ completes its humiliation in the D.C. sandwich thrower case by failing to secure even a misdemeanor conviction. 
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1 month ago
31 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
A Riot By Any Other Name...
DOJ punishing lawyers, the future of the billable hour, and dark times for public interest work. ----- We talk about the DOJ lawyers suspended by the White House for calling January 6 a riot in a sentencing memo. and the conversation veers down a rabbit hole about the proper role of pardons. For years, the billable hour seemed like the cockroach of law firm management, but after surviving numerous brushes with death, AI might finally force firms to look into alternative fee structures. And if you're in law school and thinking about serving the public interest, expect it to be a lot more expensive unless your future employer is blessed by the Trump administration.
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1 month ago
39 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Dispatches From The Collapse Of The Rule Of Law
And a Biglaw firm seeks help while an in-house attorney blows up her career. ----- Catching up with the slice of the conservative legal movement who have stared into the moral abyss of the Trump administration and recoiled in horror. The Society for the Rule of Law held its annual summit and while many attendees voiced clear-eyed opposition, some continued to grapple with the cognitive dissonance in recognizing that Trump might be the natural and logical consequence of their own long championed conservative projects. One attendee who has no illusions over the gravity of the threat though was Judge Michael Luttig who railed against the Supreme Court in the legal equivalent of a rousing halftime locker room speech. Also, Cadwalader seems increasingly at an existential crossroads and looking for a merger partner. And a lawyer loses her job over ballpark rant -- and what's more, her team lost.
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1 month ago
38 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
No, Your Honor, I Didn't Call You That, I Was Talking About, Um, Bundt Cake
Also frivolous lawsuits and the insidiousness of dishonest analysis. ----- Appeals court decides that some things are best left unsaid. And among those things are calling your judge the c-word. Just so we're clear, even though this was over Zoom, we're not talking about "cat." After trying to bully Michigan Law Review through litigation, the anti-DEI publicity hounds at FASORP have dropped the case. And with Trump inching closer to declaring martial law in America's cities, right-leaning legal analysts have started the process of normalizing abuse of the Insurrection Act by pretending its strict limits are really just open-ended invitations and if anyone's to blame for Donald Trump's authoritarianism, it's really Joe Biden. We manage to talk about AI and Baudrillard in a single episode.
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2 months ago
35 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
On Campus Hiring Is Broken, And This Isn't Helping
Just in time for the AI slop to take over. ----- Some law firms are handing out recruiting entertainment budgets to law students. While we don't fault law students some sweet walking around money, placing that power in the hands of students highlights the breakdown in the law school recruiting process and a real risk of baking more bias into hiring. Why has Kirkland memory holes its incoming partner class? The decision to opt out of its traditional announcement message seems like a move to shield its high-achievers, but there are some other possibilities. And a Senator wants some answers after a pair of federal judges issue opinions with possible (read: likely) AI hallucinations.
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2 months ago
38 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Is This The Beginning Of The End For The Bar Exam?
One can only hope. ----- For a long time, the bar exam seemed like the nasty habit that the legal profession just couldn't quit. But there's finally some progress on that front, with Utah unveiling a new alternative pathway to licensure that values experience and the skills that an actual practitioner needs. We also check in on Cadwalader, where the firm brings on a new co-manager while taking some serious blows in the lateral market. Finally, the Supreme Court is back in session, so we look back at the summer of shadows, when the Court's shadow docket finally crashed into the reality of a president unwilling to play the game and Justice Thomas shed a little light on his decision to bail on teaching his class after Dobbs.
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2 months ago
35 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
All The Cool Kids Are Passing The Bar, All The Cooley Kids... Not As Much
Biglaw capitulators face new challenge and James Comey gets indicted. ----- Perennially embattled Cooley Law School once again called out by the ABA over sagging bar passage rates. The school has been out of compliance with ABA standards since 2020, and now finds itself on probation with its accreditor. The last time something like this happened, Cooley sued the ABA into relenting. History is a flat circle. After learning that Paul Weiss and Kirkland were providing free legal services to the Commerce Department, presumably in an effort to satisfy their pro bono payola obligations, we wondered how this could possibly be legal in light of 31 U.S.C. 1342. Apparently, lawmakers wondered the same thing. And James Comey finds himself indicted after a whirlwind that involved removing the existing top federal prosecutor for refusing to file a sham case and replacing him with an in-over-her-head Florida insurance lawyer.
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2 months ago
30 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Nothin' Says Lovin' Like A Benchslap
Law firm fires lawyer over Kirk comments and law school announces new scholarships. ----- Perkins Coie cut ties with an attorney over Charlie Kirk comments on social media. The remarks were measured and reasonable, but the firm is still fighting the Trump administration in court and -- seemingly -- does not want any distractions or mere appearance of bias. But is that a worthy excuse? A Pillsbury partner received a benchslapping over what the judge considered unchecked entitlement. A Biglaw partner? Entitled? No! Also, a law school responds to the new federal loan caps with guaranteed scholarships to cover the gap. Is this the start of a trend?
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3 months ago
31 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
A Tale Of Two Supreme Court Book Tours
Compare and contrast as ACB and Sotomayor ride (media) circuit. ----- Amy Coney Barrett and Sonia Sotomayor are both hitting the talk shows and it's highlighting how awkward the nation's relationship with the Supreme Court really is. Barrett went on Fox and accurately stated that the Constitution prohibits Trump running for a third term. Then the host offered a "wink wink" prompt and she started backpedaling. Meanwhile, Sotomayor went on Colbert and bent over backward to give her conservative colleagues the benefit of the doubt, requiring Colbert to step in and remind us of the fire in Sotomayor's dissent. Two very different media hits, but a consistent reminder that the justices just aren't willing to forge a genuine connection with the public over media. Also, Ropes & Gray maintains a single-tier partnership (for now) and Megan Thee Stallion case introduces the world to process servers taking things up a notch.
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3 months ago
30 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
The Fundamental Dishonesty Of The Supreme Court
Law school is more expensive than it used to be... but barely more expensive! ----- Federal judges have had to deal with more and more threats from conservatives whipped into up by the Trump administration rhetoric blasting judges blocking illegal executive orders, only to be unceremoniously overruled by the Supreme Court. Last week, multiple judges called out the Republican justices for issuing unexplained opinions refusing to challenge -- indeed, passively encouraging -- Trump's attacks. So much for Chief Justice Roberts sanctimoniously declaring that the threats are just a product of the public not understanding the opinions. Law school tuition has skyrocketed in real terms for decades, but based on the last 10 years, the fever may finally have broken. Meanwhile, Amy Coney Barrett has some books to sell! And she's going to do it by playing up her image as the tortured, yet principled conservative who strips Americans of long enshrined freedoms, but just because she has no other choice. And, as she made clear in Dobbs, women and choice just don't mix!
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3 months ago
36 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
DOJ Has Egg On Its Face
The Department of Justice is having a rough time getting those trumped up charges (pun intended) from the fed's takeover of D.C. to stick. Plus lawyer getting slammed for trying to use opposing counsel's premature baby as leverage. And infamous law professor Amy Wax has her legal case against University of Pennsylvania thrown out of court, but it's unlikely to be the end of her antics.
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3 months ago
28 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
2400 Reasons To Brush Up That Resume
We know where some of those pro bono payola hours are going. ----- Be prepared to be on the clock a lot longer at King & Spalding, where the firm has introduced a 2400 hour “productive” time target. In other words, attorneys will have to figure out how to describe 2400 hours worth of work to the firm’s billing software every year. This seems to follow the overarching retreat from the work from home era, which also made news this week with a firm announcing a new office mandate… but just for some associates. Justice Jackson drew upon a generational touchstone to succinctly describe the Supreme Court majority’s jurisprudence. And a pair of the spineless firms are providing free legal services to the Commerce Department.
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4 months ago
35 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
The Sandwich Is Mightier Than The Sword
Law firms get some worrying numbers from last quarter. ----- The new D.C. folk hero who threw a sandwich at Trump's surge publicity stunt turned out to be a DOJ attorney. He's been fired because this administration will not stand for disrespecting law enforcement... unless they're trying to kill Capitol police officers on January 6. Meanwhile, the legal industry enjoyed a muted quarter. Are they preparing to batten down the hatches for a recession? Supreme Court begins moving the pieces into place to tear down Obergefell.
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4 months ago
33 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Missing: Biglaw's Summer Bonus Matches
Milbank delighted with special summer bonuses, ranging from $6-25 thousand, for associates. And that's great for them! But where are all the matches? We have a theory on when associates at other firms will be able to cash in. There was some fishiness (now resolved) with the constitution on congress's website. Which, honestly, should be more shocking than it is. Biglaw partner lateral moves are all the rage, with some major moves this summer. But not everyone is benefitting from the hotness of the lateral market -- all because of a little thing called due diligence.
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4 months ago
30 minutes

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.