Clever is an award-winning, independent podcast that offers a window into the humanity behind the design of the world around us.
In each episode, designer Amy Devers has candid and revealing conversations with the visionaries, culture-makers, and creative forces who shape our world and inform our society. Through a disarming mix of raw candor and honest shop-talk, Clever peels back the layers to unearth the gritty, authentic and sometimes surprising details of their creative paths.
Clever Confidential is Clever’s offshoot series where we dig into the lesser told stories of the darker side of design; the shadowy, sometimes sordid, tales hiding under a glossy top coat of respectable legacy.
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Clever is an award-winning, independent podcast that offers a window into the humanity behind the design of the world around us.
In each episode, designer Amy Devers has candid and revealing conversations with the visionaries, culture-makers, and creative forces who shape our world and inform our society. Through a disarming mix of raw candor and honest shop-talk, Clever peels back the layers to unearth the gritty, authentic and sometimes surprising details of their creative paths.
Clever Confidential is Clever’s offshoot series where we dig into the lesser told stories of the darker side of design; the shadowy, sometimes sordid, tales hiding under a glossy top coat of respectable legacy.
Visit our website:
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
When her life collided with a high-profile murder trial, longtime true-crime devotee Stephanie Tinsley found an unexpected path into creative agency and advocacy. After a career in sales and private equity, everything shifted when her husband, attorney Mark Tinsley, was thrust into the spotlight during the Murdaugh murder trials. In this episode, she and Amy discuss the making of Everything They Missed, the inner resources she had to marshal to tell the story well, and why centering human dignity is her driving force in true-crime storytelling.
Images and more from Stephanie Tinsley on our website!
Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
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Molly Heintz grew up fascinated with Greek mythology, and eventually, fashion – drawn to enthralling storytelling and visual aesthetics. She carried this interest in Greek mythology over to studying archeology but when she became burned out in academia, she transitioned to work as a fashion editor, setting her on an entirely new careerpath. From there, she worked in marketing and communications, eventually co-founding Superscript and teaching at SVA, chairing the Masters of Arts in Design Research, Writing & Criticism program. Together with Steven Heller, she’s co-edited The Education of a Design Writer to showcase exemplary design writing and share practical advice for writers. Molly makes a compelling case for why design writing is essential for the design process, and for understanding the world around us.
Images and more from Molly Heintz on cleverpodcast.com!
Special thanks to our sponsor! Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
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Clever Confidential is Clever’s offshoot series, where we dig into the darker side of design–the shadowy, sometimes sordid tales hiding under a glossy topcoat of respectable legacy.
In Episode 4: Before Silicon Valley, there was Olivetti—an Italian design powerhouse on the brink of changing the world. But just as their revolutionary computer neared completion, tragedy struck.
Visionary leader Adriano Olivetti and brilliant engineer Mario Tchou both died suddenly, their deaths cloaked in secrecy and Cold War paranoia. What really happened to them—and who stood to gain?
Host Amy Devers and writer Andrew Wagner follow the trail of innovation, betrayal, and buried history to uncover how a company destined to shape the digital age was silenced... and why its story was nearly erased.
Check out images of the Programma 101 and more about Olivetti on cleverpodcast.com
Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Many thanks to our guest expert Barry Katz.
Audio clips courtesy of Luca Cottini - Italian Innovators youtube video - CAMILLO & ADRIANO OLIVETTI. At the Origins of the Computer Age. Linkedin and instagram @italianinnovators
Writing and research: Amy Devers, Andrew Wagner, Ilana Nevins
Editing and Sound Design: Camille Stennis and Mark Zurawinski
Theme Music: “Astronomy” by Thin White Rope courtesy of Frontier Records
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Emmy-nominated costume designer Virginia B. Johnson grew up with a “dragon mother,” which shaped her structured habits and her ability to work smoothly amid chaos. Her childhood was filled with intergenerational connection and crafting - learning sewing, embroidery, knitting and crocheting from a “flock of Filipina aunties,” which fostered not only a sense of community, but a foundational skill for her eventual career. Although she was a pre-med major in college, a serendipitous side gig in a college theater costume shop sparked a passionate pivot to a career that now includes critically-acclaimed and award-winning projects like Hillbilly Elegy and American Primeval, and the opportunity to lead teams in the art of deploying deep craft and rigorous, reverent cultural authenticity to drive powerful storytelling.
Images and more from Virginia B. Johnson on our website!
Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
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Julia Watson, a landscape architect, author, and educator, developed a passion for global cultures and knowledge as a child in Australia, inspired by her parents' National Geographic collection. She has since dedicated her career to exploring traditional knowledge systems and their application to contemporary design challenges like extreme weather, waste management, and population growth.
At the heart of Watson's work is a profound respect for indigenous knowledge systems and a commitment to applying Traditional Ecological Knowledge (TEK) to climate-adaptive design. Through her work with Lo-TEK, including the recently launched Lo-TEK Office for Intercultural Urbanism, and her books, Lo-TEK: Design by Radical Indigenism and the upcoming Lo-TEK Water (November 30 release), she strives to facilitate the equitable exchange and implementation of indigenous knowledge and technology to the crucial and complex challenges of our evolving world.
Images, links and more from Julia Watson on our website!
Special thanks to our sponsor - Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
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Graphic designer Aaron Draplin was born in Michigan and raised on LEGO bricks, pizza nights, punk rock & snowboarding. He spent early adulthood rolling with the “crusty undercurrent of f*ckheads” that lives to snowboard before he ventured to Minneapolis to study design amongst the ghosts of his musical heroes. He’s seen some high-falutin’ stuff at the museum, but the steelyard is where it’s at. He’s all about working hard, making a sh*t whack of money, taking care of his people, and having some fun along the way. Thanks to Adobe Max for hosting us in the Airstream podcast lounge.
Images and more from Aaron on cleverpodcast.com!
Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
This episode of Clever is created, hosted and produced by Amy Devers and Jaime Derringer with music from El Ten Eleven and editing by Jennie Josephson.
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If you enjoy Clever we could use your support! Please consider leaving a review, making a donation, becoming a sponsor, or introducing us to your friends! We love and appreciate you!
Special thanks to our sponsors!
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Cas Holman grew up playing make-believe in the woods and helping her mechanic step-dad fix cars and dune buggies. Always knowing that she didn’t check the stereotypical gender boxes, she never gave any of the other arbitrary “boxes” much credit either, instead preferring to focus on the outside-the-box possibilities that could be accessed through play, curiosity, and exploration. While getting her MFA, she began working on Geemo, a building toy, which kicked-off her life’s mission of designing for play. Since then, she’s established herself as a champion of open-ended play, designing notable play systems like Rigamajig. She’s worked with global business leaders to incorporate play into company culture, leading to more innovative outcomes, greater trust and safety, and improved resilience. With her upcoming book, Playful, she is on a campaign to help adults reconnect with play throughout their lives because she knows, and has the research and science to prove it, that with play we ALL become more creative, joyful, and productive. Ain’t that good news!
Images and more from Cas Holman on our website!
Special thanks to our sponsor:
Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
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Architect, artist, and designer, Suchi Reddy, grew up in India where her home played a critical role in her appreciation of how environments shape our experiences. Now, at the helm of her architecture firm + design studio, Reddymade, she’s built a body of work spanning residential, large-scale commercial environments, and immersive interactive public art installations. As a leader in the practice of neuroaesthetics, a neuroscientific study of the impact of art and aesthetics on brain and body, all her work follows her guiding philosophy: “form follows feeling.”
Integrating neuroaesthetics into her architecture and design work is an ongoing endeavor in the art of making the invisible visible, as in the physiological responses to spaces or the sounds plants emit in response to stress, and pushing the boundaries of of how we can use design to create spaces that truly nurture our wellbeing.
Images and more from Suchi Reddy on our website!
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
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Designer, craftsman, artist and educator, Norman Teague, grew up in Chicago absorbing the sounds, colors, textures and vibes of his “hood,” fancy cars, and Auntie Aretha’s painting. A highschool Drafting elective was his first real step into the design field, which he then traversed with aplomb through an MFA at SAIC, to the Venice Architecture Biennale, to MoMA, to the design team of the Obama Presidential Center. At the helm of his namesake design studio, he’s built a storied, critically acclaimed career, and a powerful legacy of challenging the design canon, cultural storytelling, and educating generations of future designers.
Images and more from Norman Teague on our website!
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
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Information designer and advocate for data humanism, Giorgia Lupi, spent her childhood in Italy organizing buttons in her grandmother’s tailor shop, a data collector already in the making. The teenage years had her expressing herself through the punk rock and heavy metal scene in her town. After receiving her master’s degree in Architecture, she began her PhD in Design at Politecnico di Milano while founding Accurat, an internationally acclaimed data-driven design firm. Now a partner at Pentagram, and author of personal projects such as Dear Data, she continues to push for a humanistic approach to data as a path to understanding our complex realities.
Images, links and more from Giorgia!
Clever is hosted and produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Rich Stroffolino, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
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Everyone’s most beloved DIY hero, fashion designer, and creative maverick Todd Oldham grew up experimenting at the family craft table and stabbing his sister (volunteer fit model) with pins. A self-described little weirdo, he learned early on to eschew the arbitrary boundaries that society uses to stratify and separate. He values process over outcome and honors his curiosity while staying committed to excellence. This has earned him brand permission and a ton of wisdom for living a full, creative life.
Images and more from our guest!
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Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Incogni helps you take back control of your personal information and reduce the risk of spam, scams, and identity theft. As a Clever listener, you can claim a special offer of 60% off of Incogni at incogni.com/clever
Thanks for listening!
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This episode of Clever is created, hosted and produced by Amy Devers and Jaime Derringer, with music from El Ten Eleven and editing by Jennie Josephson.
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Interior Designer Kia Weatherspoon spent her youth making frequent trips to visit her brother in prison - a deeply dehumanizing experience that left a big impression. In the military, she was deployed shortly after 9/11 and awakened her innate designer in the need to create privacy and comfort. Now, Kia is delivering on a quest to ensure that interior design is accessible for all, especially those in economically challenged communities.
Images, links and more from Kia at cleverpodcast.com
Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Rich Stroffolino, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
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Illustrator, graphic designer, speaker and picture book-maker Andy J. Pizza grew up in the Indiana suburbs, the child of two diametrically opposite parents - dad in corporate finance and mom an artist. Often feeling out of place, he learned to cope by drawing and smoking cigarettes, before finding indie music, and from there gig posters and graphic design. Now, he’s a wildly successful illustrator and beloved podcaster who remains exceptionally honest, open, and real about the inner workings of being a neurodivergent creative.
For a transcript and images from Andy head to cleverpodcast.com.
Special thanks to our sponsor:
Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
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Interior designer, Clodagh, grew up in the Irish countryside running barefoot through the woods, riding horses, and rebelling. A near death experience lit a fire in her to pursue fashion and she opened her first shop at age 17. After a career pivot and 50+ years of designing spaces that make people feel good, she’s considered a true pioneer in biophilic and sustainable design, and a living legend.
Images, links and more from Clodagh on cleverpodcast.com!
Special thanks to our sponsor
Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
If you enjoy Clever we could use your support! Please consider leaving a review, making a donation, becoming a sponsor, or introducing us to your friends! We love and appreciate you!
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Rich Stroffolino, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
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Designer Antionette Carroll, born, raised, and based in St. Louis, Missouri, is a natural born leader who has been on a mission since day one. She’s the founder of Creative Reaction Lab, a nonprofit educating and deploying youth to challenge racial and health inequities impacting Black and Latinx populations. Antionette co-pioneered an award-winning form of creative problem solving called Equity-Centered Community Design and in doing so has received several recognitions and awards including being named an ADL and Aspen Institute Civil Society Fellow, TED Fellow, SXSW Community Service Honoree, and Essence Magazine Woke 100, among many others. She’s also a classic Taurus, the mother of twins, a fan of Mexican food, and a proud granddaughter!
Images and more from Antionette Carroll on our website!
Special thanks to our sponsor:
Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Rich Stroffolino, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
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Interior designer and self-described “cocktail,” Yasmine Ghoniem has lived a whirlwind life across continents, cultures, and careers. Born in Kuwait to Australian and Egyptian parents, she lived throughout the Middle East before moving to the United States to attend Savannah College of Art and Design. She always had a deep love for music, feeling destined to be a performer, she formed indie rock bands with family and friends throughout the years. Yasmine eventually put down roots in Sydney, Australia where she founded and leads YSG Studio, an interior design studio focusing on residential and hospitality. She brings her eclectic influences and flair for the theatrical drama of staging and storytelling to all of her spaces. Intoxicating indeed!
Images, links and more from Yasmine!
Special thanks to our sponsor:
Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Rich Stroffolino, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
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Artist and technologist, Ari Melenciano, spent her youth obsessed with music, art, and gadgets. A year in Barcelona, a city that valued art as she did, left a meaningful impression on her. Back in the US, frustrated at the racial inadequacy of academia and technology, she founded Afrotectopia, a cultural institution building at the nexus of art, science, and technology through an Afrocentric lens.
Images and more from Ari at cleverpodcast.com!
Special thanks to our sponsor:
Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Rich Stroffolino, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
If you enjoy Clever we could use your support! Please consider leaving a review, making a donation, becoming a sponsor, or introducing us to your friends! We love and appreciate you!
SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app!
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Multidisciplinary designer, Rodolfo Agrella, grew up in Venezuela with a happy place at a kid-sized table. A self-described weirdo and excellent dancer, he put it all to work as a social butterfly. Now at the helm of an award-winning studio designing products, interiors and experiences, he’s on a steady and colorful streak translating the vibrancy of the tropics into a universal design language.
Images and more from Rodolfo Agrella on our website!
Special thanks to our sponsor:
Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Clever is hosted and produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Rich Stroffolino, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
If you enjoy Clever we could use your support! Please consider leaving a review, making a donation, becoming a sponsor, or introducing us to your friends! We love and appreciate you!
SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app!
SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts
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Co-founders of House of Rolison, Amanda Leigh and Taylor Hahn, grew up on opposite coasts but were both self-described angsty teens. Both had a deep love for art and architecture, choosing different professional paths before they met online and their fates intertwined. Their first date turned into a road trip and then quarantine-based cohabitation. Since starting House of Rolison, they’ve renovated a number of forgotten old homes into warm, elegant, modern beauties. Their complementary strengths and deep reverence for their crafts and trades crew, ensures that each new project has room for magic and a whole lot of soul.
Images and more from House of Rolison on our website!
Special thanks to our sponsor:
Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
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Live experience & interior designer Willo Perron grew up in Montreal surrounded by creativity. An industrious kid, he dropped out of high school at 14 to follow his own entrepreneurial and creative path. He got his start around the nightclub scene in Montreal doing everything from designing flyers, to lighting, to scouting DJs, and designing streetwear. Since then he’s gone on to design the now-famous aesthetic for American Apparel retail stores, as well as collaborate with many of pop music’s biggest stars, including Kanye, Drake, Lady Gaga, and St. Vincent. With partner Brian Roettinger, he’s built a multidisciplinary design firm, Perron-Roettinger, that works across Interior design, live experience, print, and identity. A firm believer in life having a way of working out, Willo continues to embrace entrepreneurship, creativity, and collaboration in an intuitive and exhilarating way.
Images, links and more from Willo Perron!
Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio:
Web designers, Wix Studio lets you deliver your vision with less friction. Built for agencies and enterprises, you get total creative control over every last pixel, with no-code animations, tons of AI tools, reusable design assets, and advanced layout tools.
Check out Wix Studio for your next project: https://www.wix.com/studio.
Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.
If you enjoy Clever we could use your support! Please consider leaving a review, making a donation, becoming a sponsor, or introducing us to your friends! We love and appreciate you!
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