Six years after his first appearance on Founder Views, Luca is back with the real story of how AI forced a full business model and go-to-market shift.
Customerly went from a seat-based, product-led support platform for small SaaS teams to an AI-first customer service engine selling into mid-market and enterprise, where volume and ROI are obvious.
In this episode we get into:
The Arena
The Arena is a private Skool community for SaaS founders who are actively building and selling. I share real-time decisions, experiments, and assets as I use them while growing a bootstrapped SaaS.
No theory. No polish. Just execution.
Learn more at: https://www.skool.com/the-arena/
Chapters / Timestamps
00:00 – Reunion after 6 years and what changed (COVID + AI era)
01:27 – Luca intro: what Customersly does today
02:30 – From $100K ARR to near $1M and why pricing changed
05:08 – “Chatbots are shit”: how they built AI without the bad UX
07:10 – Under 1% error rate and reducing hallucinations
09:52 – Grounded AI, intents, and automating beyond FAQs
11:09 – Closure rate benchmarks and what “good” looks like
16:41 – How to pick an AI support tool that actually works
18:20 – Training mistakes: transcripts, clutter, and marketing banners causing hallucinations
20:46 – Confidence thresholds and escalation as a feedback loop
22:48 – How long it takes to move from 45% to 70–80% automation
24:34 – Should AI learn from your inbox? Pros, risks, and why they avoid it
29:41 – Implementation timelines: small teams vs enterprise rollouts
31:38 – Why AI CSAT can beat humans (speed wins)
35:46 – Escalation rules: human request, sentiment, low confidence, missing info
37:21 – Going enterprise: ARPU jump and sales-led reality
41:02 – Outbound experiment: agency failure and building it internally
43:32 – LinkedIn ads + Clay targeting + the masterclass lead magnet
49:25 – Challenger Sale and shifting the conversation
53:20 – Founder lesson: why you can’t outsource what you haven’t done
58:54 – Outbound stack: Clay, Apollo, Lemlist, Sales Nav, Pipedrive
01:05:12 – 2026 vision and wrap
How do you take a niche SaaS product from zero to $150k MRR in under two years — without venture capital?
In this episode of Founder Views, Kosta Panagoulias sits down with Nadav Boaz, co-founder of VoiceDrop, to break down exactly how they scaled fast by combining cold email mastery, SEO execution, and ruthless operational discipline.
This isn’t theory. Nadav shares what actually worked — and what didn’t — across dozens of past businesses before VoiceDrop finally clicked.
We cover:
If you’re a SaaS founder focused on execution, leverage, and real growth, this episode delivers.
Chapters / Timestamps
00:00 – Why VoiceDrop caught Kosta’s attention
02:00 – What VoiceDrop does (ringless voicemail explained)
04:00 – Team size, remote setup, and founder roles
07:00 – Using past businesses as leverage for new SaaS launches
10:20 – The 3 growth pillars: SEO, cold email, Google Ads
13:30 – SEO execution: keywords, authority, and SOPs with VAs
16:00 – Ranking in AI search (ChatGPT, Gemini, etc.)
18:10 – Cold email infrastructure that actually works
22:00 – Targeting, segmentation, and ARPU strategy
26:00 – When SEO overtook outbound as the #1 channel
27:00 – Boosting trial-to-paid conversion to 50%
30:00 – Pre-authorization: filtering tire-kickers
32:00 – Human vs product-led conversions
36:00 – Using AI inside the product (voice cloning, scripts)
39:00 – AI for outbound replies and internal leverage
41:30 – Scaling fast without burning out as a founder
45:30 – Customer support, tooling, and cost control
50:00 – Managing churn in a high-ticket SaaS
53:30 – The single metric Nadav watches daily
54:20 – Favorite business book & lifestyle choices
56:20 – One billboard lesson for SaaS founders
👉 Hard Knock SaaS is a practical video series for SaaS founders who want real-world playbooks — not theory.
Built from my experience bootstrapping, scaling, and exiting SaaS companies, it covers sales, positioning, pricing, and execution.
Learn more at: https://hardknocksaas.com
Gladys Jeannette is a real estate investor and Broker in El Salvador. I've been wanting to speak to someone on the ground in El Salvador for quite some time, and Gladys is the perfect person to get an insider's look into the changes happening in the country.
We dive deep into the life in El Salvador, real estate investing in the country, including which areas to keep an eye out for, how bitcoin is driving change, safety, and the way of life in the country.
If you've been keeping an eye on El Salvador, curious about the changes happening in the country, real estate, or bitcoin, this is the perfect episode for you.
Adam Niman (BSc, CLU) is a seasoned life insurance professional with over a decade of experience in the field. His focus is exclusively on insurance, and he advocates for keeping insurance and investments separate.
I first heard Adam on one of my favourite podcasts (see link below), talking about why the infinite banking concept is flawed. He raised some pretty eye-opening concerns and perspectives that stirred up some waves in the infinite banking circles.
Since first hearing Adam on that podcast, we've since had several conversations, and wanted to have him on the podcast. I definitely think his insights and message is worth sharing.
If you're familiar with infinite banking, have a policy, or thinking about getting setup, this is an episode you definitely want to hear.
Download Adam's ebook "Fortune or Fiction" here: https://fortuneorfiction.ca/
➡️ The most important lessons from growing and selling a bootstrapped SaaS company, from a non-technical entrepreneur: https://www.hardknocksaas.com/ (use HUSTLE40 for 40% off).
Matheus Riolfi is the founder and CEO of tint.ai, a company that provides embeddable insurance to tech platforms and marketplaces.
Unlike most founders I speak to that are bootstrapped - Matheus followed a different journey. Launching in 2018, Matheus led his company through YC (Y Combinator), and most recently closed a $25 million Series A round.
We cover several topics, including:
- Why he chose to get funding, rather than bootstrap
- How Tint maintains a positive workplace culture as a fully remote team
- How his role as CEO continues to evolve
- The most important skills a new founder should possess
- Much more
Follow Matheus Riolfi on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mriolfi/
Check out Tint: https://www.tint.ai/
** The most important lessons from growing and selling a bootstrapped SaaS company, from a non-technical entrepreneur: https://www.hardknocksaas.com/ (use HUSTLE40 for 40% off).
Stefan Smulders is one of the best marketers I've spoken to. In 2019, he founded expandio.io, and was able to generate $1 million in run rate in the first six months after launch!
Continuing to leverage creative and effective marketing strategies on social media, Stefan is leading Expandi to hit $10 million in revenue by the end of 2023.
This was a fascinating conversation, and I encourage any startup founder or anyone in marketing to give it a listen. We touch on several topics, including:
- Learning and growing from past business failures
- How Expandi hit $1 million run-rate in the first six months
- Leveraging your personal brand to grow your business
- The psychology of sales
- Effective growth channels used to reach $10 million revenue
- Much more
Follow Stefan on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SmuldersStefan
Download the e-book "From Zero to SaaS Hero: https://expandi.io/from-zero-to-saas-hero-ebook/
The person I credit to introducing me to the Infinite Banking Concept, is none other than Chris Naugle.
After hearing this episode, you'll quickly understand why Chris is considered "America's # 1 Money Mentor". He is truly a master of money.
Chris has built and owned 19 companies, with his businesses being featured in Forbes, ABC, House Hunters, and his very own HGTV pilot in 2018. He is currently founder of The Money School™, and Money Mentor for The Money Multiplier.
We dive into so many important money and financial topics, including:
- The reasons why Silicon Valley Bank (SVB) and other banks are collapsing
- Financial opportunities that everyone can be taking advantage of today
- How to become your own banker (literally) using the Infinite Banking Concept
- How Chris is personally leveraging his Infinite Banking Policies to make investments and earn income
- Ways to protect yourself from financial collapse
- How to be free and independent from a corrupted financial system
Follow Chris on YouTube: @TheChrisNaugle
Learn more about Chris: https://www.chrisnaugle.com/
This was a fun conversation. Two bootstrapped entrepreneurs talking shop, growth and business - unfiltered.
Hoyin Cheung is the founder and CEO of Remo.co, a company that helps teams build and grow relationships, virtually.
I've been eager to learn more about the virtual reality space, and how invested companies actually are in implementing this technology. So when the opportunity arose to speak to Hoyin, I jumped on it.
Very impressively, as a solo founder, Hoyin bootstrapped Remo to over $4M+ in revenue, with a team of 25 people. Some of the biggest organizations in the world have used Remo, including Harvard University, IBM and Shopify.
We touch on several topics in this episode including:
- Connecting with team members working remotely
- How companies are leveraging virtual reality
- Trends in the VR space
- The social behaviour challenge to VR adoption
- Tactical ways Remo has been able to scale
- Challenges of growing a company during times of high inflation and economic uncertainty
- Future of VR
Check out Remo: https://remo.co/
Follow Hoyin on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hoyincheung/
** Get 40% of my video content series with code HUSTLE40: https://www.hardknocksaas.com/
Adam is the founder and CEO of Bitcoin Well, a publicly traded Canadian company that allows people to buy and sell bitcoin.
My goal with this episode was to educate the average person about everything they need to know about buying and storing bitcoin. Although we did cover that in a lot of detail, we naturally got into other topics as well, including:
- The custody of money
- How Adam deals with getting banned from having bank accounts
- Threats and concerns for bitcoin companies
- Freedom and sovereignty
This was the second time having Adam on the podcast, and certainly not the last. Check out our first conversation here: https://youtu.be/VSwaAZtCp8c
The safest and fastest way to buy bitcoin in Canada: bitcoinwell.com/app/signup?referral=kostapana
Follow Adam on Twitter: https://twitter.com/adamobrien_
Recently, I’ve been thinking and reading a lot about the economy, bitcoin, and the history of monetary systems.
After stumbling on one of Julian’s informative 60 second videos on Modern Monetary Theory, it was only fitting that I reach out him to chat on the podcast.
Julian Figueroa is a Canadian entrepreneur, filmmaker and bitcoin investor.
This was one of the most fun, engaging and insightful conversations I’ve had in a while. Although the conversation could have lasted a lot longer, we covered several topics, including:
Follow Julian on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@KineticFinance
Follow Julian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/kinetic_finance
Ever since I learned about the Infinite Banking Concept, I've been trying to inform as many people as possible about it.
No matter what your financial situation is, every single person can benefit from this concept.
I spoke with Hayden Padalino, an Authorized IBC Practitioner from Ontario, Canada. My goal was to touch on the fundamentals of the Infinite Banking Concept, and hopefully encourage people to look into it further.
Some topics of discussion include:
- How your money is not in your control if it's in the bank
- How to use IBC during tax time
- Alternatives to RRSP contributions
- Why whole life policies are a safe way to store your money
- How to access money from your policy
- Practical ways to use your policy in every day life
Learn more about IBCanada Group here: https://ibcanadagroup.com/