In this brief holiday bonus, you’ll get behind-the-scenes highlights of Season 8. Plus a sneak-peek at some of the provocative guests and valuable topics we’ll cover in season 9!
Season 9 will start in late January 2026. If all goes according to plan, S9:E1 will drop on Wed., Jan. 21, 2026 at 8am ET. From thereon, new episodes will publish weekly on Wednesday mornings throughout the season.
You’ll also learn about our the new FTP Podcast Premium on Patreon. For $6 a month, you provide grassroots support for production of this ad-free show. And you offer monthly earned income for Fund the People, a national nonprofit organization. This helps us remain an independent, bold voice for the nonprofit workforce. It helps us produce thought-leadership, research, tools, communications, educational programs, and advocacy for investment in the nonprofit workforce.
As a Patreon member, you will get:
Sign up now with this special link for a six month free subscription to our premium show. (https://patreon.com/FundThePeople/redeem/512F4)
Patreon members can watch the video version of this episode, filmed down by the river in New York's Hudson Valley (where we record Riverside Reflections, our new podcast available exclusively on Patreon).
Also on this episode, Rusty acknowledges the people who worked with him to make S8 happen:
And he thanks our major foundation supporters this year, who helped make this show and all our programming possible:
Thanks for listening, and thanks for all you do! Have a restful holiday season and we’ll talk to you in the New Year!
In this final episode of Season 8, you'll get a powerful, inspiring discussion on defending the nonprofit sector amid political intimidation and retrenchment, with a call to action for funders to act with courage rather than caution. The message is clear: a strong democracy depends on a strong, well-resourced nonprofit workforce, and philanthropy must choose to lead boldly in this moment.
Host Rusty Stahl, Fund the People's President and CEO, speaks with Dr. Sherece West-Scantlebury, President and CEO of the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation, as part of the Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy series.
Reflecting on more than 30 years in philanthropy and her forthcoming retirement at the end of 2025, West-Scantlebury offers a candid assessment of what has — and hasn’t — worked in the sector. She traces the evolution of the foundation’s equity-centered mission, its focus on working families who are struggling in Arkansas, and how COVID reinforced the urgency of addressing low wages, systemic inequities, and the root causes of poverty.
Throughout the conversation, she challenges philanthropy to confront the real costs of sustaining a healthy civil society and to move beyond outdated, restrictive funding models.
Dr. West-Scantlebury also details the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation’s commitments to capacity building, nonprofit workforce pay and benefits, leader wellness, and innovative approaches such as enterprise capital. She argues that investing in people — through living wages, flexible funding, wellness stipends, and long-term balance-sheet investments — is essential to nonprofit sustainability and impact.
The episode closes with a powerful discussion on defending the nonprofit sector amid political intimidation and retrenchment, with West-Scantlebury urging funders to act with courage rather than caution. Her message is clear: a strong democracy depends on a strong, well-resourced nonprofit workforce, and philanthropy must choose to lead boldly in this moment.
Download an edited transcript of this episode
This is part 2 of our 2-part Season 8 Finalé. Check out part 1, a conversation with Andrea Levere of Capitalize Good (S8:E12), from December 10, 2025.
Guest Bio:
From her early beginnings as a housing advocate in New York City to leading some of the most prestigious foundations in the Southeastern U.S., Sherece West-Scantlebury, Ph.D., has been relentless in her quest to increase prosperity for families striving to move out of poverty. She has served as President and CEO of the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation for 18 years. Previously, she was the founding CEO of the Foundation for Louisiana, which was born in response to Hurricane Katrina. Prior to that, she was a program executive at the Annie E. Casey Foundation.
Related Episodes:
Enterprise Capital: A Framework for Sustainable Nonprofits - with Andrea Levere (S8:E12)
Lowering Our 'Revenue Risk,' with Gretchen Upholt, BDO (S8:E11)
'Silence Isolates, Solidarity Shields,' with Tonya Allen, McKnight Foundation (S8:E7)
Links to Resources Discussed in the Episode:
United for ALICE (ALICE: Asset Limited, Income Constrained, Employed)
In this episode, you’ll learn about a powerful alternative to restricted, project-based funding: enterprise capital for nonprofits. Guest Andrea Levere, founder and CEO of Capitalize Good, explains why nonprofits—like any enterprise—need multi-year, flexible capital that strengthens their balance sheets, builds reserves, and supports the people and systems that drive impact. Andrea breaks down the basic financial principles that determine nonprofit sustainability, and how enterprise capital enables organizations to innovate, hire essential staff, invest in technology, and create high-quality jobs. She also shares compelling examples—from affordable housing developers to workforce builders—showing how this kind of capital supports everything from salaries and benefits to new program development and strategic growth.
Andrea and Rusty also dig into the relationship between talent-investing and enterprise capital, the pitfalls of scarcity-based philanthropy, and how funders can more effectively match their “sources of funds” to the actual needs of organizations. Andrea shares stories from Capitalize Good’s partnerships with funders like the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation and the Citi Foundation's Community Progress Makers, as well as the emerging work in Arkansas to pilot enterprise capital approaches statewide. Listeners will come away with a clear understanding of how enterprise capital works, why it matters, and how both nonprofits and funders can adopt this transformative approach.
Download an edited transcript of the episode in .PDF format
Links to Resources:
Gift to Listeners: 6 Months Free Subscription to FTP Podcast Premium on Patreon (up to 50 people). Offer will no longer be available after 12/31/25 at 11:59pm ET.
Long-Haul Grantmaking Report (Fund the People)
Guest Organization & Initiatives Mentioned
In this episode, nonprofit finance expert Gretchen Upholt joins Rusty to introduce Nonprofit GPS, BDO’s free new online toolkit for scenario planning, business model resilience, and short-term coaching. Learn how your organization can navigate revenue risk and make informed financial decisions in 2026, as the impact of the Trump Administration's War on Charity continues to roll across the sector.
Itching for more Fund the People Podcast? Join the new Premium version of the show on Patreon! Visit patreon.com/fundthepeople to join. You'll get extended episodes, videos, bonus content, and community conversations. Plus, you'll get Riverside Reflections, an entire new weekly show only available to premium subscribers! Get the inside scoop on Fund the People while getting outside for a walk and an intimate conversation with host Rusty Stahl.
Download an edited transcript of this episode.
Related Episodes:
Funders Confront Reality and Myth of Nonprofit Overhead with Rodney Christopher, BDO
MacArthur President Chooses Courage, Not Quiet with John Palfrey, MacArthur Foundation
How Many-Year Grants Strengthen Nonprofit Jobs and Impact with Betsy Leondar-Wright, Fund the People
Resources Mentioned:
Nonprofit GPS website (free tools from BDO and their partners)
Strong Nonprofits website
Nonprofit Financial Commons website
Funding for Real Change, the website that resulted from the Real Change, Real Costs Initiative
Resources Mentioned:
Nonprofit GPS website (free tools, templates, webinars, coaching from BDO and their partners)
Funding for Real Change, the website that resulted from the Real Change, Real Costs Initiative
Guest Bio:
As a Managing Director with BDO’s Nonprofit and Grantmaker Advisory practice, Gretchen Upholt leads the team’s Cohort & Initiative programs, where BDO partners with funders to provide large-scale capacity building programs for their grantees. She also serves as a lead for several key product areas including training and finance technology consulting, and as a representative of BDO to nonprofits and funders in the Midwest region. In addition to her leadership in the practice, she splits her time between playing an active role as trainer, coach, and curriculum developer for cohort and other training initiatives and as consultant to nonprofit clients across the country, helping nonprofit leaders improve their financial management skills and processes. An experienced staff and program manager, Gretchen is skilled in training, capacity building, research, and program and volunteer management.
Previously, Gretchen served as the head of the Volunteer Department at the Thabyay Education Network in Thailand. In that role, Gretchen developed a strategic plan to improve monitoring and evaluation and program management in her department. She also served on the leadership team for the organization, where she reviewed and approved budgets for the organization’s 22 programs and worked on a plan to restructure the organization’s finance and operations staffing and systems.
Gretchen’s widely diverse nonprofit experience includes working on the corporate citizenship team at the TCC Group, designing and implementing a pilot research study on nonprofit talent costs for the Talent Philanthropy Project (now Fund the People), as a project manager with the Connecticut Coalition to End Homelessness, and as Chorus Manager for The Choral Arts Society of Washington. She also served as a Community Development Peace Corps Volunteer in Ukraine, where she designed project frameworks, wrote grants, and led a committee tasked with making funding decisions for USAID-funded grants.
Just in time for the Thanksgiving holiday, Rusty sits down with consultant and PlayFull Podcast host Kristine Michie for a lively conversation about the role of joy, play, and ice cream in sustaining the nonprofit workforce. Kristine shares how her lifelong roots in activism shaped her worldview, and how her consulting firm, ImpactFull, emerged with a mission to help social-change leaders weave fun, creativity, and moments of levity into the everyday grind of mission-driven work. Together, Rusty and Kristine explore why morale is so fragile in the current climate—and why nurturing hope, agency, and human connection is essential for impact.
Drawing on insights from nearly 200 interviews with changemakers, Kristine describes how play reduces stress, builds community, fuels innovation, and restores the emotional stamina required for nonprofit work. She offers practical strategies for leaders and funders—such as incorporating playful tools into board development, gamifying engagement, and creating small rituals of joy that strengthen team culture. Through stories, laughter, and yes, shared ice cream, the episode highlights a simple but powerful truth: when nonprofits integrate play into their work, they replenish the spirit needed to keep going and keep changing the world.
Related Episodes:
Links to Resources:
Guest Bio:
Kristine Michie is Founder of ImpactFull, Inc., creator of Provocative Joy Retreats, Changemaker Camp, and host of the PlayFull Podcast: Bringing Fun to the Serious Work of Changing the World. Her firm reinvents change-sector strategies with fresh approaches, including Board Development & Delight, Balance & Joy meeting facilitation, and Better Giving coaching for funder collectives. A published author, panelist, and speaker, Kristine brings joy to changemakers worldwide.
This episode explores the stages of foundation responses to the Trump Administration’s War on Charities, through the lens of a place-based funder network. Rusty sits down with Megan Thomas, CEO of Catalyst of San Diego and Imperial Counties. This regional funder association has worked with its members and local nonprofit advisors to build several rounds of collaborative funding, including cash flow assistance loans.
You’ll hear:
Megan is a longstanding leader in the philanthropic community, and her organization, Catalyst, is one of Fund the People's partners in the California Talent Justice Initiative.
This episode is part of our biweekly Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy Series, as well as our ongoing efforts to feature our California Talent Justice Initiative partners across the Golden State.
Transcript:
Related episodes from FTP Podcast:
Defend Nonprofits, Defend the Social Safety Net - with Edward Hershey, CEO, Home of Guiding Hands (San Diego)
Nonprofit Staff Resilience and Wellbeing in Turbulent Times - with Loretta Turner, Founder and Strategist, Do Good Leadership Collective
MacArthur President Chooses Courage, Not Quiet - with John Palfrey, President, MacArthur Foundation
Resources mentioned in the episode:
Guest bio:
Megan serves as Catalyst’s president & CEO, providing strategic leadership and partnership to the entire Catalyst staff, board, members, and community partners. Megan oversees Catalyst’s facilitation of collaborative efforts among its funder members and other stakeholders; leads the production of philanthropy and impact investing skills-building and issue based learning; and spearheads Catalyst’s work related to championing equity and opportunity. She strengthens Imperial and San Diego County communities through shared learning and pooled and aligned funding strategies, and initiatives fiscally sponsored by Catalyst.
Megan brings 20 years of experience in the nonprofit and philanthropic fields to this role, having most recently served as Executive Director of San Diego Coastkeeper where she built partnerships among the nonprofit, business, and public sectors to advance environmental goals across San Diego County. Megan received her Bachelor of Science in Business Administration from Georgetown University and her Masters in Business Administration from Yale School of Management. She serves on the board of directors for the United Philanthropy Forum (national) and the Museum of Us (San Diego).
In this episode, you'll get valuable insights from the CEO of one of the few foundations in the US focused on nonprofit people, not nonprofit programs. Our guest is Maria Cabildo, CEO of The Durfee Foundation.
Durfee funds “people and possibilities in Los Angeles county.” Maria served as President and CEO of the East LA Community Corporation for 16 years, where she was the recipient of multiple forms of Durfee support. She has also worked in government and other philanthropic organizations.
We discuss Durfee’s interlocking funding programs: their signature sabbatical award for nonprofit leaders; the Stanton Fellowship (an R&D opportunity to advance new ideas); Springboard (catalytic support for emerging organizations); and the Lark Awards (collective care and renewal for staff at community-based organizations).
Maria also shares insights on why funders should recognize the genius and ingenuity in community-developed solutions to problems; staying grounded in the realities and relationships of grassroots communities as we become powerful professionals; and leading during crisis, and how funders can respond to crises by remaining consistent and stable, while being responsive and stepping-up support for nonprofits.
Guest Bio:
Maria Cabildo (she/her) is a lifelong Angelena. Born and raised in East Los Angeles. She has a long career in public service. She has held positions in the philanthropic, nonprofit, private, and government sectors, including co-founder and CEO of the East LA Community Corporation (ELACC) from 1999 – 2015. She received both a Durfee Foundation Sabbatical and Stanton fellowship while CEO of ELACC. She holds a bachelor’s degree from Columbia University, a master’s degree in Urban Planning from UCLA’s Luskin School of Public Affairs, and a Certificate in Advanced Environmental Studies from Harvard University’s Graduate School of Design. She lives in Eagle Rock with her two adult children and their cats, Milk & Andaluza.
Relevant Episodes:
Nonprofit Staff Resilience and Well-Being in Turbulent Times
Breaking the Silence: Making Leadership Transitions Safe for Nonprofits
Resources Discussed:
Sabbatical Program (Related: Creative Disruption Report on funding nonprofit sabbaticals)
Stanton Fellowship (Related: What If: Insights from a Decade of Philanthropic R&D)
Other organizations discussed:
In this powerful episode of Fund the People’s Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy series, Rusty sits down with Tonya Allen, President of the McKnight Foundation, to explore how philanthropy can respond to the Trump Administration’s War on Charity, and serve as an active force for transformation. Tonya shares her roots in Detroit activism, lessons from community leaders who shaped her understanding of philanthropy as “an active verb,” and her belief that funders must embrace—not shy away from—power to change systems. She urges foundations to reject fear and isolation in the face of political attacks, reminding listeners that “silence isolates, and solidarity shields.”
Tonya and Rusty also discuss how McKnight has transformed under her leadership—expanding its grantmaking to historic levels, adopting bold investment and climate commitments, and launching the $5 billion GroundBreak Coalition to build wealth for communities of color in the Twin Cities. She offers candid insights on trust-based philanthropy, supporting nonprofit workers, and how the Unite in Advance initiative is helping the social sector stand strong against coordinated threats. This episode is a master class in courageous, values-driven leadership in philanthropy.
Guest Bio:
Tonya Allen is a leader and a change agent with a passion for co-creating an equitable, sustainable world. In 2021, she became president of the McKnight Foundation, a Minnesota-based family foundation that advances a more just, creative, and abundant future where people and the planet thrive.
In 2024, McKnight granted over $145 million—the highest charitable payout in the Foundation’s history at 7 percent of its endowment—in support of equitable communities, a clean energy economy, global food systems, artists and culture bearers, and innovative neuroscience research. Beyond this increase in grantmaking, Tonya has worked to ensure that McKnight uses every tool in its toolbox as a philanthropic organization. In her first year at McKnight, Tonya championed using the Foundation’s investments to advance net zero goals, and elevated McKnight’s voice and leadership to rebuild Twin Cities neighborhoods and small businesses impacted by Covid-19 and the 2020 civil unrest. In 2022, Tonya helped launch the GroundBreak Coalition, an ambitious, multi-sector effort to close wealth gaps in Minneapolis-St. Paul. In 2023, GroundBreak announced nearly $1 billion in commitments towards its goals.
Prior to joining McKnight, Tonya served as president and CEO of The Skillman Foundation, and as a program officer at the Charles Stewart Mott and Thompson McCully foundations. She was a co-founder and architect of Detroit Children’s Fund, and the founder and director of Detroit Parent Network.
Similar Episodes:
Episode Links:
In this brief Bonus Episode, Rusty Stahl introduces the concept of Staff Operating Support (S.O.S.) Grants. It's a new type of grant for the new type of existential crisis we face.
An S.O.S. Grant is restricted for investments in a grantee's people and the systems that support their team. Within that restriction area, an S.O.S. Grant is flexible, responsive, and trust-based. Why? Read our concept paper to find out!
Rusty and our team at Fund the People developed the S.O.S. Grants Concept as a new part of our Funding that Works Framework. It is meant to help funders and fundraisers support nonprofit workers in response to the current crisis, but also in reaction to the chronic deficit of investment in America's nonprofit workforce.
Have feedback? Leave comments in your podcast app, or email rusty@fundthepeople.org.
Nonprofit burnout is real — and rising. In this episode, Rusty Stahl welcomes back Dr. Elisha Smith Arrillaga, Vice President of Research at the Center for Effective Philanthropy (CEP). They discuss new data revealing how stress, vacancies, and limited funding flexibility are affecting nonprofit leaders and staff across the country.
They dig into CEP’s State of Nonprofits 2025 and Voices That Matter reports, exploring:
What’s driving staff burnout and morale loss
The disconnect between funder intent and nonprofit experience
How funders can actually help
Ways to use data to advocate for equity, sustainability, and smarter philanthropy
Elisha also shares a preview of CEP’s upcoming research on how the current administration’s “war on charity” is impacting the sector — and what innovations and risks are emerging in response.
The episode ends with a call for funders and nonprofits alike to use the research data on The State of Nonprofits to advocate for change and collaboration.
Related Episodes:
Resources & Links Mentioned:
CEP Conference 2025 — Opening plenary to feature new research on the impact of the “war on charity”
Advocacy expert Bethany Snyder joins Rusty Stahl to reveal how nonprofit leaders can reclaim their power, speak out boldly, and protect the sector from political attacks.
In this powerful episode of Fund the People, host Rusty Stahl sits down with advocacy strategist Bethany Snyder, founder of Snyder Strategies, to explore how nonprofits can — and must — use their voices boldly in today’s political climate. Snyder argues that the nonprofit sector is “on the menu” under the Trump administration’s attacks on civil society, and the only way off is to reclaim a seat at the policymaking table. With a mix of urgency and humor, she calls on nonprofit leaders to act from a place of strength, not fear, reminding them that their power is exactly why they’re being targeted.
Drawing on her career spanning grassroots campaigns, public policy, and a stint as a staffer for Senator Al Franken, Snyder shares practical guidance for organizations to build strategic advocacy programs — not “random acts of advocacy.” She breaks down her Advocacy Roadmap process, showing how nonprofits can engage their members, train effective advocates, and communicate clearly with lawmakers. Whether at the local, state, or federal level, her message is clear: advocacy isn’t optional — it’s essential to protecting your mission, your community, and the nonprofit sector itself.
Guest Bio:
Bethany Snyder, MPP, is the powerhouse behind Snyder Strategies, LLC, where she helps nonprofit and membership organizations build bold and effective advocacy programs that drive real change.
With nearly 25 years of experience spanning communications, advocacy, and public affairs, Bethany has worn many hats—grassroots advocacy director, lobbyist, consultant, communications director, and even a U.S. Senate staffer—bringing a wealth of expertise to every project she touches.
She is also the recent former Director of the Iowa Nonprofit Alliance, during which she Bethany championed the work of Iowa’s 23,000 nonprofit organizations and the professionals who power them, ensuring their voices were heard and amplified.
A proud Hawkeye with a BA from the University of Iowa and a Master of Public Policy from the University of Minnesota, Bethany’s dedication to community runs deep. She leads Central Iowa Rainbow Families, chairs One Iowa Action and the Urbandale Civil Rights Commission, and serves on the board of Family Equality, all while advocating for a more equitable future.
Links to Resources:
Bethany Snyder – Snyder Strategies
https://www.snyderstrategies.me/Bethany helps nonprofits and social justice organizations find their advocacy voice and build lasting policy impact.
Snyder Strategies Quiz - What’s Your Advocacy Edge? https://snyder-strategies.involve.me/nonprofit-advocacy-quiz
Advocacy With Sass (Bethany’s blog)
https://www.snyderstrategies.me/advocacy-with-sassA three-minute questionnaire to help you understand where you are on your advocacy journey—so you can move forward with clarity and confidence.
Senator Al Franken (D-MN) Bethany previously served as a staffer for Senator Franken during his first term in office.
CDC Smokefree Programs - Background on the national movement to promote smokefree air policies — the kind Bethany helped advance early in her career.
Foundations on the Hill - A national gathering where foundation and philanthropic leaders meet with federal lawmakers to advocate for charitable giving and organized philanthropy.
Bolder Advocacy (Alliance for Justice) - A top resource for nonprofit and foundation advocacy training, tools, and legal guidance.
The Adventures of Baron von Munchausen (One of the most under-rated yet joyfully wacky and amazing films of all time, according to Rusty)
Is your nonprofit stuck in an understaffing cycle, in which you need expertise but can't afford senior-level salaries? Are you overwhelmed by wearing multiple hats as an executive director, lacking specialized skills in fundraising, HR, or communications? What if there was a way to access experienced professionals without the full-time commitment?
Through this episode, you’ll learn about working with “fractional executives” – a practice where nonprofits engage a portion of an experienced professional's time to provide both strategic guidance and hands-on implementation of a key organizational function. You’ll get tips for when organizations are ready for fractional executives; how to find them; and how best to work with them. Our guest is Cindy Wagman, a Canadian fundraising consultant who has become a leading voice in the fractional executive practice for nonprofits. Wagman shares her journey from university fundraiser to consultant, how she evolved her own fractional executive model, and the training and matching services she has developed to help more people become fractional executives specifically for nonprofits, and help more nonprofits find them.
Wagman defines fractional executives as a unique blend of strategic thought and implementation, typically requiring 7+ years of direct experience in their function. Unlike traditional consultants who provide advice, fractional executives create plans and then execute them, working on retainer and focusing on deliverables and outcomes. She emphasizes this isn't a cost-saving measure but rather an optimization strategy, allowing small and mid-size nonprofits to access senior-level expertise they couldn't otherwise afford. The typical investment is comparable to hiring a junior-level employee but with significantly more experience and strategic capability.
The conversation covers practical guidance for both sides of the equation. For nonprofits considering fractional executives, and professionals considering becoming fractional consultants. Wagman has built an entire ecosystem around this model, including training programs through her Nonprofit Fractional Academy, a matchmaking service at nonprofitfractionals.com, and multiple podcasts. She advocates for funders to embrace investing in people and trust organizations to choose how to best structure their teams, whether through traditional hiring or fractional arrangements.
About Cindy Wagman:
Cindy Wagman helps seasoned nonprofit pros build six-figure consulting businesses—without the burnout. A former in-house leader turned business coach, she’s the founder of Cindy Wagman Consulting and the Nonprofit Fractional Network, and has guided 100+ consultants to grow profitable, values-driven practices.
She’s the bestselling author of Raise It!, co-host of Confessions with Jess and Cindy, and host of Fracture, a private podcast for nonprofit fractional execs ready to stop fixing broken systems and start building something better.
Nonprofit Executive's Guide to Hiring a Fractional Leader (free)
Matchmaking Service (find a fractional executive for your org)
Remember that old activist saying, "Don't mourn; organize"? Well, what if you're feeling deep disillusioned and disempowered by attacks on nonprofits and communities you love? Feeling dread as you witness beloved institutions and ideas get damaged or destroyed? How are you going to sustain morale through all this?
This episode offers language, tools, and pragmatic resources to help you or your team mourn, so that you can continue to organize. Our guest Meico Marquette Whitlock shares the concept of social impact grief. Whitlock discusses how this emotional response to setbacks, policy reversals, and systemic resistance is part of changemaking work, but often goes unacknowledged, creating a dynamic among activists he describes as "driving with the parking brake on."
The discussion includes practical strategies and exercises for both individuals and organizations to get back into gear. Meico emphasizes that grief isn't linear and shouldn't be avoided, but rather embraced as fuel for continued work.
The episode concludes with information about Whitlock's books, retreats, and consulting services, which position self-care as essential for sustainable social change work.
BIO:
Meico Marquette Whitlock is The Mindful Changemaker and The Mindful Techie. He works with changemakers who want to improve their well-being so they can sustainably increase their well-doing in changing the world. He's the author of the Amazon bestseller How to Thrive When Work Doesn’t Love You Back: A Practical Guide for Taking Care of Yourself While Changing the World and The Intention Planner. He has worked for more than two decades across the nonprofit, public, and private sectors, during which time he has used information technology to improve well-being in underserved communities as a software and web developer, communications director, trainer and facilitator, and mindfulness teacher.
According to his website, Meico is a former triathlete, loves salsa dancing, and makes the world’s best vegan chili. He holds an M.S. in Information Science from the University of Michigan and a B.A. in Political Science and Spanish from Morehouse College. He is also a certified trauma-informed mindfulness teacher.
Related Episodes:
Nonprofit Staff Resilience and Well-Being in Turbulent Times with Loretta Turner
Wellbeing as Strategy: Reimagining Philanthropic Practice with Laura Bacon
Happy Healthy Nonprofit People with Beth Kanter
Resources Discussed in Episode:
Services:
Virtual Wellness Retreat for Changemakers (August 2025)
Publications:
Newsletter (scroll down main page to “Sign up for Updates” just above footer)
Book: How to Thrive When Work Doesn’t Love You Back (here’s a digital preview of the book)
Book: The Intention Planner
Social Media:
Online Courses:
Post-Election Email Series:
In the episode, Rusty mentions that Fund the People used Meico's tips to help their team debrief after the election in fall 2024. Here are the emails Meico shared at that time. Although the election is in the rear view, the messages and tips are still relevant:
In this episode, you’ll learn how many-year grants can bolster nonprofit people and programmatic impact.
Host Rusty Stahl sits down with Betsy Leondar-Wright, Ph.D., the lead researcher at Fund the People, to discuss our brand-new report, Long-Haul Grantmaking.
Betsy brings decades of nonprofit leadership, social justice activism, and academic research to the conversation, and she shares how her personal experiences with underfunded, unstable nonprofit jobs shaped her passion for this work. Together, Rusty and Betsy explore the vital question: what happens when funders commit to long-term, flexible support for nonprofits with an emphasis on supporting employees?
Drawing from a case study of the Walter & Elise Haas Fund’s Endeavor Fund, which made seven-year unrestricted grants to seven Bay Area nonprofits, Betsy highlights transformative impacts for organizations and their staff. From stronger internal systems and fairer pay, to improved work-life balance, healthier collaboration, and greater program impact, the research shows how funding stability, paired with financial incentives to focus on job quality, directly translates to healthier, more effective nonprofits. Betsy also shares moving examples of staff and program participants whose lives have been improved by this approach—from frontline workers gaining access to healthcare and rest, to immigrant entrepreneurs modeling better job practices in their own small businesses.
This conversation offers funders and nonprofit leaders alike practical insights into how funding can shift from a cycle of scarcity to a model of sustainability. Listeners will also learn about an upcoming interactive webinar (October 10, 2025, 10am PT / 1pm ET) where Betsy and special guests will dive deeper into the findings and share strategies for overcoming barriers to many-year funding. Register to discover how embracing long-haul grantmaking can fuel high-performing people, organizations, and impact.
Betsy Leondar-Wright, Ph.D.
Betsy leads Staffing the Mission, Fund the People's research and dissemination arm. In this role, she serves as Principal Investigator of the Upgrading Nonprofit Workplaces study. The first publication from this research is Long-Haul Grantmaking report. Betsy joined the team when Staffing the Mission became part of Fund the People in late 2023.
Dr. Leondar-Wright is a veteran of 30+ years at economic justice nonprofits in various roles, including United for a Fair Economy. She has facilitated more than 250 popular education workshops around the US and the UK. As an Associate Professor of Sociology at Lasell University, she taught about race and class inequality and social movement strategy. She is the author of Missing Class: Strengthening Social Movement Groups by Seeing Class Cultures, and a co-author of The Color of Wealth: The Story Behind the US Racial Wealth Divide.
Related episodes:
Long-Haul Grantmaking Research:
Other Resources Discussed in the Episode:
CA Talent Justice Summit webpage
In the season premiere of Season 8, your host Rusty Stahl (Founder, President & CEO of Fund the People) outlines the season’s focus on strengthening and defending the nonprofit sector. He previews upcoming conversations with influential leaders such as Tonya Allen of McKnight Foundation, Deepak Bhargava of Freedom Together Foundation, and Michael Thatcher of Charity Navigator. Rusty shares a new Fund the People research report and webinar (10/10 at 10am PT) on ‘long-haul grantmaking’ that emphasize better jobs in nonprofits and will be featured on the podcast this season, alongside a forthcoming concept from Fund the People called “Staff Operating Support” (or “S.O.S.”) Grants, a new type of strategic, responsive funding meant to provide direct investments in nonprofit workers.
Rusty frames this season within the broader context of what he calls the Trump Administration’s War on Charity (#TrumpWarOnCharity), citing efforts to undermine First Amendment freedoms, nonprofits, charitable giving, and the nonprofit workforce. He discusses how euphemisms have obscured the severity of these threats, and emphasizes the need to speak plainly about the challenges facing the sector. He encourages nonprofit leaders to stand in solidarity with all other nonprofits. He invites listeners to make their nonprofit values visible by wearing FTP Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy gear.
The episode addresses current events, including the politicization of the horrific Charlie Kirk assassination, which Rusty argues has been exploited by the Trump Administration to justify attacks on progressive philanthropy and nonprofits. He details the flawed logic behind these narratives, putting his M.A. in Philanthropy from Indiana University up against a J.D. from Yale Law School. Finally, Rusty closes with a call to remain vigilant,and to follow Season 8 for research, tools, and practices to help you invest in the nonprofit workforce despite (or because of) the ongoing siege on our sector.
Bio:
Rusty Stahl serves as Founder, President, and CEO of Fund the People. Fund the People works to strengthen the effectiveness, impact, and sustainability of philanthropy and the social sector by maximizing investment in America’s nonprofit workforce.
Rusty is a tenacious, mission-focused thought-leader, social entrepreneur, and student of the field. Alongside his colleagues, Stahl has studied, developed ideas, and written extensively on what it takes to invest in the nonprofit workforce. This podcast is one of the places such exploration and learning takes place.
Before launching the organization, Rusty completed R&D for Fund the People as a Visiting Scholar in Residence at NYU’s Wagner School of Public Service. Previously he served as Founding Executive Director of Emerging Practitioners in Philanthropy (EPIP) and as a Program Associate at the Ford Foundation. He holds an M.A. in Philanthropic Studies from Indiana University.
Resources:
Related Episodes:
What happens when a major foundation president decides to speak out boldly during a crisis? How can philanthropy surge resources to protect nonprofit workers facing unprecedented job losses? In this season finale of the Fund the People Podcast, host Rusty Stahl sits down with John Palfrey, President of the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, to explore how courage becomes contagious in times of sector-wide attacks. You'll discover the real math behind foundation payout increases, learn why one foundation moved from 5% to 6% giving (adding $150 million over two years), and understand the strategic thinking behind multi-year general operating support.
Palfrey shares the behind-the-scenes story of how MacArthur Foundation responded to federal cuts targeting nonprofits—from increasing their payout rate to joining solidarity campaigns that have gathered nearly 700 institutional signatures. He offers frank "real talk" about the trade-offs of long-term funding, explains why he believes in the constitutional "freedom to give," and discusses how foundations calculated that nonprofit grantees lost about 12% of their federal funding. This conversation reveals both the possibilities and limitations of philanthropic response during crisis.
As attacks on nonprofits continue through 2025, this episode provides essential insights for anyone working in or with the social sector. Whether you're a nonprofit leader wondering how to navigate funding relationships, a foundation professional considering how to increase impact, or simply someone who believes in the power of organized giving, you'll gain practical knowledge about how major philanthropy is adapting to meet this unprecedented moment—and why taking summer breaks might be the most important advice of all.
Funding for Real Change - fundingforrealchange.com (true cost initiative tools)
Season 5, Episode 7: "The Great Double Standard" (Rusty's rant about foundation overhead policies)
Season 4, Episode 10: “MacArthur Foundation Makes Changes to End Nonprofit Starvation Cycle – with Kenneth Jones, MacArthur Foundation” interview about MacArthur's indirect cost policy
Season 7, Episode 17: “Meet the Moment: A Call to Action for Funders – with Shaady Salehi, Trust-Based Philanthropy Project”
Season 7, Episode 1: “Do Funders Understand the Nonprofit Burnout Crisis? – with Elisha Smith Arrillaga, CEP” on the 2024 State of Nonprofits
HR 9495 - "The Big, Bloated Bill" (link to Congress.gov full text)
Center for Effective Philanthropy “State of Nonprofits 2025: What Funders Need to Know”
John Palfrey's guest post on CEP blog “Courage in Unity: A Funder’s Response to the ‘State of Nonprofits’” (June 3, 2025 response to the report)
Council on Foundations public solidarity sign-on campaign - (694+ institutional signatures supporting philanthropy's freedom to give)
"Meet the Moment" commitment - Trust-based philanthropy pledge (nearly 200 institutional signatures)
Bio
John Palfrey is President of the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, one of the nation’s largest philanthropies with assets of approximately $8 billion.
Prior to joining the Foundation, Palfrey served as Head of School at Phillips Academy Andover. During his tenure, the number of faculty members of color doubled, and the student body grew more diverse.
Palfrey was the Henry N. Ess III Professor of Law and Vice Dean for Library and Information Resources at Harvard Law School.
Palfrey served as Executive Director of the Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society. He is founding board chair of the Digital Public Library of America, and is the former board chair of LRNG.
Palfrey has published extensively on how young people learn in a digital era, as well as the effects of new technologies on society at large. Palfrey holds a JD from Harvard Law School, an MPhil from the University of Cambridge, and an AB from Harvard College.
Why are so many talented community organizers burning out and leaving the field just when we need them most? What would it look like if nonprofits collectively committed to improving wages and working conditions for the people doing the most essential work in our movements? How can funders shift from perpetuating a cycle of underpayment to investing in the workforce that drives social change?
In this episode, you’ll get promising ideas from guests who are answering these questions with practical, real-world efforts on the ground. Host Rusty Stahl sits down with Kara Park from All Due Respect, and Gaby Hernandez from Órale, to explore a groundbreaking project in Southern California where 20 organizations came together to create shared labor standards for the community organizers on their teams. Through candid conversation, they reveal findings from their compensation study showing that organizers are making an average of $57,000 while directors wish they could pay $65,000, and that there's a troubling salary plateau that pushes experienced organizers out of the field after five years. The guests share how their collective, multi-organizational approach moved beyond individual organizations to create more system-wide change, including transparent pay scales, wellness budgets, and a direct appeal to funders.
This conversation offers practical insights for any nonprofit leaders grappling with staff recruitment, compensation, and retention, funders seeking to make meaningful impact, and anyone who believes that the people fighting for justice deserve to thrive while doing that work. Kara and Gaby demonstrate that addressing burnout requires both better compensation and improved working conditions - you can't have one without the other. Their work provides a roadmap for how organizations can move from accepting poverty wages as inevitable to collectively demanding the resources needed to sustain a powerful movement for social change.
Resources:
Bios
Kara Park (she/her) is an organizer, facilitator and coalition builder with over a decade of experience in state and national social justice movements. Her work has included grassroots organizing, issue-based advocacy, civic engagement, leadership development and political education, including consulting on curriculum and training for multiple organizations. Kara has served as the Director of Programs for Asian American organizing efforts in both Minnesota and Oregon, building state-based power and leading organizational strategy and program development. In 2017, she helped to pass Oregon's landmark Reproductive Health Equity Act, which has since become a model for multiple other state policy campaigns. Kara has also worked as Civic Engagement Manager for Forward Together, a national organization that unites communities to win rights, recognition and resources for all families, and co-created an Asian and Pacific Islander reproductive justice storytelling project called We Carry Oceans.
Gaby Hernandez is the Executive Director of ÓRALE, an immigrant-led organization dedicated to dismantling the criminalization of immigrants and securing protections that allow communities to flourish. Gaby
This episode updates you on how the Big, Bloated Bill in Congress will impact nonprofits and philanthropy. And this week’s interview offers a deep dive into how the proposed law would impact nonprofits that hold up America’s social safety net.
What happens when government cuts to essential services threaten to recreate the horrors of decades past? How do nonprofits navigate serving vulnerable populations while fighting for their very existence? In this powerful episode, Edward Hershey, CEO of Home of Guiding Hands, reveals the critical connection between defending democracy and protecting society's most vulnerable members—people with intellectual and developmental disabilities who depend on services that are now under unprecedented threat.
Hershey shares the stark reality of operating a $35 million nonprofit with 1,200 employees while 90% dependent on government funding that's facing massive cuts. From paying payroll on credit cards due to delayed government payments to witnessing a 40% underfunding crisis finally addressed only to be threatened again, his organization's story illuminates how attacking nonprofits, government programs, and philanthropic funding creates a dangerous triple threat to democratic values. The conversation traces a direct line from the horrific institutional conditions exposed by Geraldo Rivera in the 1970s to today's policy decisions that could force a return to those dark days.
Through personal accounts of rallying 300 constituents, confronting elected officials, and maintaining hope among staff and clients, Hershey demonstrates that defending democracy isn't abstract—it's about ensuring that government remains "of the people, for the people" by protecting the infrastructure that cares for those who cannot advocate for themselves. His message is clear: we are judged as a society by how we treat our most vulnerable, and preserving that care is preserving democracy itself.
You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at fundthepeople.org.
Resources:
Rally footage/media:
KPBS Monday 5/26
KPBS "San Diego News Now" podcast (2:07 mark)
FOX 5 aired footage 5/26 at 1:05 pm and re-aired 5/27 at 6:08 am and 9:08 am
KUSI aired footage 5/26 4:07 pm, 6:08 pm, and 5/27 at 5:16 am
10 News mentioned the rally in their morning newscast at 5:42 am
Bio:
Edward Hershey is the President and Chief Executive Officer of Home of Guiding Hands. He assumed his role with HGH on September 1, 2021. Edward began his career at HGH in 2015 as the Vice President of Operations and was then promoted to Chief Operating Officer. Edward has 27- years of management experience in directing all facets of business operations, with expertise in operations and project management. Prior to joining Home of Guiding Hands, Edward worked for Father Joe’s Villages as their Vice President of Operations for 12 years, and for the Employment Development Department where he specialized in Veteran’s needs. Edward served in the US Navy during the Gulf War and was honorably discharged in 1993. He serves on the Board for the California Disability Services Institute, and the California Disability Services Association. He volunteers his time for Boy Scouts of America and the VFW. Edward holds a Master’s Degree in Human Resource Management with a Specialization in Strategic Innovation and Change Management from Colorado State University and a Bachelor’s Degree in Organizational Leadership with a Specialization in Public and Non-Profit Management. Edward is a graduate of the National Leadership Consortium on Developmental Disabilities, a licensed California Contractor, and is a member of the John Maxwell team certified as a leadership coach, speaker, and trainer. He lives in El Cajon with his wife of 16 years Jessica and their three children, Julia, Niko, and Ethan.
Are you curious about the true scope and scale of nonprofit employment in America? Ever wonder how nonprofit jobs weathered the pandemic compared to for-profit jobs? In this episode, host Rusty Stahl speaks with Dr. Alan J. Abramson and Chelsea Newhouse, both of George Mason University, about the numbers behind the nonprofit workforce, and their implications for funders, policymakers, and nonprofit leaders.
The conversation reveals crucial facts about nonprofit employment based on George Mason’s latest report. Abramson and Newhouse discuss how nonprofits lost 580,000 workers during the early pandemic but weathered the initial downturn better than for-profits. They explore common misconceptions about nonprofit funding and highlight how the sector has struggled to fully restore its workforce.
Our guests introduce their Nonprofit Works, a free, user-friendly tool that provides high-level data about how many Americans earn a living through nonprofit work, and how much money nonprofits add to the economy in annual wages. The database allows users to segment this data by sub-sector and geography, and compare it to business and government jobs. The numbers are drawn from federal Department of Labor data, but the nonprofit employment data are published extremely infrequently, and only with help from scholars at a private, nonprofit university. Alan and Chelsea argue that better, more frequent releases of nonprofit workforce data – including relevant data collected by other federal agencies – would help nonprofit workers gain the visibility and support they deserve in public policy, the media, academic research, and among private funders.
You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at fundthepeople.org.
Bios:
Alan J. Abramson is director of the Center on Nonprofits, Philanthropy, and Social Enterprise, in the Schar School of Policy and Government at George Mason University. He teaches and conducts research on the nonprofit sector and philanthropy, and has worked to save and sustain work done at Johns Hopkins University by his late colleague, Dr. Lester Solomon. For more than a decade, Dr. Abramson directed the Aspen Institute’s Nonprofit Sector and Philanthropy Program. Before that he worked at the Urban Institute. Alan is the author and coauthor of numerous books and articles, and is involved with multiple academic associations related to the nonprofit sector. Dr. Abramson received his PhD in political science from Yale University.
Chelsea Newhouse is a consultant on the George Mason University’ Nonprofit Employment Data Project and Senior Program Manager at East-West Management Institute. Prior to joining the East-West Management Institute in 2022, Chelsea was at the the Johns Hopkins Center for Civil Society Studies, where she worked closely with late Center Director Lester Salamon on the Nonprofit Economic Data Project and the Nonprofit Works Interactive Database, the Comparative Nonprofit Sector Project, and a variety of other research projects focused on the nonprofit, philanthropic, and volunteer sector. Following Dr. Salamon’s passing, she helped transfer the Nonprofit Employment Data Project to George Mason University. Chelsea has also served as a consultant with Maryland Nonprofits and the New York Council of Nonprofits.
Resources:
What's at stake when nonprofits and democracy are under attack? How can organizations respond effectively to threats against their tax status and Constitutional rights? In this illuminating conversation, Rusty speaks with Mike Zamore, National Director of Policy and Government Affairs at the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), about the unprecedented challenges facing nonprofits in today's political climate.
Mike Zamore draws from his 22 years of Capitol Hill experience and current ACLU leadership to explain how nonprofits are essential to America's constitutional framework of checks and balances. He details recent fights against attempts to weaponize government power against nonprofits, including legislation that would have allowed stripping organizations of tax-exempt status without due process. The conversation highlights parallels between threats to individual liberties and threats to nonprofit First Amendment freedoms.
The discussion concludes with practical advice for nonprofits in red states and red districts to effectively engage with Republican representatives regarding the upcoming tax reconciliation bill that could adversely affect the sector. Zamore emphasizes the importance of solidarity, encouraging nonprofits to stand together against intimidation tactics, and that reminding us that maintaining collective courage is crucial for preserving both Constitutional rights and the ability to serve communities.
This episode was recorded the morning of May 9, 2025, before the House Ways and Means Committee revealed the language in their portion of the proposed tax bill, which includes re-introduction of H.R. 9495.
Click here for resources on new tax bill.
Resources referenced in the episode:
"Meet the Man Who Wants to Tax Most of the Nonprofit World" by Ben Gose
Filibustered!: How to Fix the Broken Senate and Save America, co-authored by Senator Jeff Merkley and Mike Zamore
Harvard statement "Upholding Our Values, Defending Our University" and lawsuit against the government
FTP Podcast Episode “Dr. King, AmeriCorps, & Nonprofit Work - with Michael Smith, AmeriCorps”
“AmeriCorps members who respond to disasters and help nonprofits are let go in DOGE cuts”
Guest Bio:
Mike Zamore is the National Director of Policy & Government Affairs at the ACLU, where he leads efforts to harness the organization’s vast expertise, 4 million members and supporters, paid staff in every state, and electoral work to shape federal, state, and local policy.
Mike is a 22-year veteran of Capitol Hill, and spent over 14 years as the Chief of Staff to Senator Jeff Merkley, an Oregon Democrat first elected in 2008. As Merkley’s top aide, Mike managed a 50+ person staff and $4 million budget, counseled the Senator on legislative and political strategy, represented the Senator to various constituencies, and led two successful re-elections.
Prior to joining Senator Merkley, Mike was the Policy Director at the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, where he assisted the 2008 Senate candidates develop their positions on the issues. Mike earlier served as Policy Advisor to Representative Patrick Kennedy and spearheaded Kennedy’s legislative agenda, including mental health parity legislation that became law in 2008, and spoke frequently on health systems reform. Earlier in his career, he spent several years working on business development projects in the early days of post-Soviet Russia and clerked for Judge Allyne R. Ross on the Eastern District of New York.
Mike is an adjunct faculty member at American University’s Washington College of Law. He graduated from Brown University and Harvard Law School, lives in Washington, DC with his wife and two sons.