Welcome to our Israel/Palestine Podcast, a project by graduating high school students from Berlin-Neukölln. Our district is home to Germany’s largest Palestinian diaspora and to many young Israelis. Israel and Palestine are painfully present in our district and in our schools. We’ve spoken to historians, legal scholars, trauma researchers, and educators — some of them world-leading experts — to better understand a conflict that shapes identities, divides communities, and echoes through generations.
Our approach is multiperspectival. We don't aim to resolve contradictions or controversies, but to hear different perspectives. Human rights and international law are the foundation of responsible multiperspectivism. Across eight chapters and 51 episodes, we explore human realities, urgency, history, the legacies of antisemitism and racism, political and legal debates, psychological dimensions, and challenges for education.
“This series, featuring truly internationally leading scholars in their fields, is, I believe, one-of-a-kind.”
— Prof. Gudrun Krämer, recipient of the 2025 Historikerpreis, the highest distinction in historical scholarship in Germany
“Astonishing … a mammoth undertaking that, in its breadth and depth — and above all in its multifaceted nature — seeks its equal. A treasure trove of historical knowledge. … It is precisely the diversity of perspectives that makes the podcast so valuable — far beyond the targeted education sector.”
— Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Christian Meier, Middle East Correspondent
Featuring:
Michel Friedman — one of the most prominent German public intellectuals
Alena Jabarine — best-known Palestinian journalist in Germany
Gudrun Krämer (FU Berlin) — leading historian of the Middle East
Michael Brenner (LMU Munich) & Derek Penslar (Harvard ) — leading scholars of Zionism
Adel Manna (Van Leer Jerusalem Institute) — leading scholar of the Nakba
Victor Kattan (University of Nottingham) — leading expert on the legal history of the British Mandate
Meron Mendel (BS Anne Frank) — leading educational voice on Israel in Germany
Eyal Benvenisti (Yale) — leading authority on the laws of occupation
Omer Bartov (Brown University) — leading scholar of Holocaust and genocide studies
Omri Boehm (The New School) — one of the most influential voices on Israel/Palestine in Germany
Claus Kreß (University of Cologne) — leading authority in international criminal law
Moshe Zimmermann (Hebrew University of Jerusalem) — leading scholar of modern Jewish history
Yael Danieli — pioneer of trauma studies and victims’ rights
Ken Stern — lead drafter of the IHRA working definition of antisemitism
Alex de Waal — leading authority on hunger and mass violence
Norman Stillman — leading scholar on Jews in the Islamic world
… and many more
The series begins and ends with voices whose lives were deeply affected by the violence of this conflict: Udi Goren (Bring Them Home Now!), Khalil Sayegh (The Agora Initiative), and Sima & Mai (Young Ambassadors for Peace).
“One of the most exciting initiatives of the year." "I am not aware of any comparable initiative driven primarily by high school students. Multiperspectivity is a widespread buzzword that is rarely lived up to. This podcast is quite different. It will greatly enrich (not only) the German debate.”
— Prof. Simon W. Fuchs, Hebrew University of Jerusalem
“They should be applauded for their maturity and inner resoluteness in confronting some of the most painful legacies of our time.”
— Dr. Yael Danieli, UN Senior Representative
“The students did an amazing job assembling this series and organizing the individual episodes.”
— Prof. Derek Penslar, Harvard University
“What an inspiring achievement.”
— Prof. Omri Boehm, The New School
“This initiative is both extraordinary and exemplary.”
— Prof. Claus Kreß, co-author of the Rome Statute; Special Adviser to the ICC; Judge ad hoc at the ICJ
“A fantastic project.”
— Nazih Musharbash, President, German-Palestinian Society
All content for Israel/Palestine Podcast is the property of by Berlin Students and is served directly from their servers
with no modification, redirects, or rehosting. The podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by Podjoint in any way.
Welcome to our Israel/Palestine Podcast, a project by graduating high school students from Berlin-Neukölln. Our district is home to Germany’s largest Palestinian diaspora and to many young Israelis. Israel and Palestine are painfully present in our district and in our schools. We’ve spoken to historians, legal scholars, trauma researchers, and educators — some of them world-leading experts — to better understand a conflict that shapes identities, divides communities, and echoes through generations.
Our approach is multiperspectival. We don't aim to resolve contradictions or controversies, but to hear different perspectives. Human rights and international law are the foundation of responsible multiperspectivism. Across eight chapters and 51 episodes, we explore human realities, urgency, history, the legacies of antisemitism and racism, political and legal debates, psychological dimensions, and challenges for education.
“This series, featuring truly internationally leading scholars in their fields, is, I believe, one-of-a-kind.”
— Prof. Gudrun Krämer, recipient of the 2025 Historikerpreis, the highest distinction in historical scholarship in Germany
“Astonishing … a mammoth undertaking that, in its breadth and depth — and above all in its multifaceted nature — seeks its equal. A treasure trove of historical knowledge. … It is precisely the diversity of perspectives that makes the podcast so valuable — far beyond the targeted education sector.”
— Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Christian Meier, Middle East Correspondent
Featuring:
Michel Friedman — one of the most prominent German public intellectuals
Alena Jabarine — best-known Palestinian journalist in Germany
Gudrun Krämer (FU Berlin) — leading historian of the Middle East
Michael Brenner (LMU Munich) & Derek Penslar (Harvard ) — leading scholars of Zionism
Adel Manna (Van Leer Jerusalem Institute) — leading scholar of the Nakba
Victor Kattan (University of Nottingham) — leading expert on the legal history of the British Mandate
Meron Mendel (BS Anne Frank) — leading educational voice on Israel in Germany
Eyal Benvenisti (Yale) — leading authority on the laws of occupation
Omer Bartov (Brown University) — leading scholar of Holocaust and genocide studies
Omri Boehm (The New School) — one of the most influential voices on Israel/Palestine in Germany
Claus Kreß (University of Cologne) — leading authority in international criminal law
Moshe Zimmermann (Hebrew University of Jerusalem) — leading scholar of modern Jewish history
Yael Danieli — pioneer of trauma studies and victims’ rights
Ken Stern — lead drafter of the IHRA working definition of antisemitism
Alex de Waal — leading authority on hunger and mass violence
Norman Stillman — leading scholar on Jews in the Islamic world
… and many more
The series begins and ends with voices whose lives were deeply affected by the violence of this conflict: Udi Goren (Bring Them Home Now!), Khalil Sayegh (The Agora Initiative), and Sima & Mai (Young Ambassadors for Peace).
“One of the most exciting initiatives of the year." "I am not aware of any comparable initiative driven primarily by high school students. Multiperspectivity is a widespread buzzword that is rarely lived up to. This podcast is quite different. It will greatly enrich (not only) the German debate.”
— Prof. Simon W. Fuchs, Hebrew University of Jerusalem
“They should be applauded for their maturity and inner resoluteness in confronting some of the most painful legacies of our time.”
— Dr. Yael Danieli, UN Senior Representative
“The students did an amazing job assembling this series and organizing the individual episodes.”
— Prof. Derek Penslar, Harvard University
“What an inspiring achievement.”
— Prof. Omri Boehm, The New School
“This initiative is both extraordinary and exemplary.”
— Prof. Claus Kreß, co-author of the Rome Statute; Special Adviser to the ICC; Judge ad hoc at the ICJ
“A fantastic project.”
— Nazih Musharbash, President, German-Palestinian Society
Ep. 48: Challenges for Education: Unsettling Empathy - How to Hold Conflicting Truths at the Same Time? (Prof. Dr. Björn Krondorfer – Northern Arizona University, USA)
Israel/Palestine Podcast
46 minutes 30 seconds
2 weeks ago
Ep. 48: Challenges for Education: Unsettling Empathy - How to Hold Conflicting Truths at the Same Time? (Prof. Dr. Björn Krondorfer – Northern Arizona University, USA)
Guest: Prof. Dr. Björn Krondorfer, Northern Arizona University
Hosts: Yusuf & Efe
Bio:
Björn Krondorfer is the Endowed Professor of Religious Studies and Director of the Martin-Springer Institute at Northern Arizona University. He holds a Ph.D. in Comparative Religion from Temple University and studied Protestant Theology in Frankfurt/Main and Göttingen, Germany. Krondorfer is internationally recognized for his work on post-Holocaust reconciliation, historical trauma, and dialogue among Germans, Israelis, and Palestinians. He brings descendants of Holocaust victims and perpetrators into conversation and extends these dialogues to include Palestinian narratives. He is the author of Unsettling Empathy: Working with Groups in Conflict (2020), Reconciliation in Global Context (2018), and The Holocaust and Masculinities (2020), and facilitates workshops, field encounters, and critical pedagogy that put dialogue into practice. He is the co-chair of the Consortium of Higher Education Centers for Holocaust, Genocide and Human Rights Studies (2020-to date) and the President of the Association for Public Religion and Intellectual Life (2023-to date).
In this episode:
Yusuf and Efe speak with Prof. Krondorfer about engaging groups affected by historical trauma and conflict, including descendants of Holocaust victims and perpetrators, as well as Germans, Israelis, and Palestinians. They explore intergenerational, transgenerational, historical, and cultural trauma, and how these traumas shape relationships across generations. Krondorfer explains his method of “Unsettling Empathy,” which engages conflicting truths and power dynamics while fostering ethically grounded, emotionally aware dialogue. The discussion covers silenced Palestinian narratives in Germany, Germany’s responsibility toward Israel, and the triangular relationship including Palestinian experiences. Listeners gain insight into how historical wounds, empathy, and self-awareness can transform dialogue, the importance of holding conflicting truths simultaneously, and practical lessons for educators, mediators, and those seeking to bridge deep divides.
This episode was recorded July 31, 2025.
Links:
Prof. Dr. Björn Krondorfer: https://in.nau.edu/martin-springer/staff/about-the-director/
Unsettling Empathy. Working with Groups in Conflict (Bloomsbury, 2020): https://tinyurl.com/mnwdjyhd
https://lernen-aus-der-geschichte.de/International/content/12232
Review by Dani Kranz: https://tinyurl.com/mrxtkmpw
Disclaimer:
Guest opinions are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast team.
Technical legal terms are explained in Episode 36 with Prof. Claus Kreß; contested histories are addressed by Prof. Gudrun Krämer in Episode 21.
Israel/Palestine Podcast
Welcome to our Israel/Palestine Podcast, a project by graduating high school students from Berlin-Neukölln. Our district is home to Germany’s largest Palestinian diaspora and to many young Israelis. Israel and Palestine are painfully present in our district and in our schools. We’ve spoken to historians, legal scholars, trauma researchers, and educators — some of them world-leading experts — to better understand a conflict that shapes identities, divides communities, and echoes through generations.
Our approach is multiperspectival. We don't aim to resolve contradictions or controversies, but to hear different perspectives. Human rights and international law are the foundation of responsible multiperspectivism. Across eight chapters and 51 episodes, we explore human realities, urgency, history, the legacies of antisemitism and racism, political and legal debates, psychological dimensions, and challenges for education.
“This series, featuring truly internationally leading scholars in their fields, is, I believe, one-of-a-kind.”
— Prof. Gudrun Krämer, recipient of the 2025 Historikerpreis, the highest distinction in historical scholarship in Germany
“Astonishing … a mammoth undertaking that, in its breadth and depth — and above all in its multifaceted nature — seeks its equal. A treasure trove of historical knowledge. … It is precisely the diversity of perspectives that makes the podcast so valuable — far beyond the targeted education sector.”
— Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Christian Meier, Middle East Correspondent
Featuring:
Michel Friedman — one of the most prominent German public intellectuals
Alena Jabarine — best-known Palestinian journalist in Germany
Gudrun Krämer (FU Berlin) — leading historian of the Middle East
Michael Brenner (LMU Munich) & Derek Penslar (Harvard ) — leading scholars of Zionism
Adel Manna (Van Leer Jerusalem Institute) — leading scholar of the Nakba
Victor Kattan (University of Nottingham) — leading expert on the legal history of the British Mandate
Meron Mendel (BS Anne Frank) — leading educational voice on Israel in Germany
Eyal Benvenisti (Yale) — leading authority on the laws of occupation
Omer Bartov (Brown University) — leading scholar of Holocaust and genocide studies
Omri Boehm (The New School) — one of the most influential voices on Israel/Palestine in Germany
Claus Kreß (University of Cologne) — leading authority in international criminal law
Moshe Zimmermann (Hebrew University of Jerusalem) — leading scholar of modern Jewish history
Yael Danieli — pioneer of trauma studies and victims’ rights
Ken Stern — lead drafter of the IHRA working definition of antisemitism
Alex de Waal — leading authority on hunger and mass violence
Norman Stillman — leading scholar on Jews in the Islamic world
… and many more
The series begins and ends with voices whose lives were deeply affected by the violence of this conflict: Udi Goren (Bring Them Home Now!), Khalil Sayegh (The Agora Initiative), and Sima & Mai (Young Ambassadors for Peace).
“One of the most exciting initiatives of the year." "I am not aware of any comparable initiative driven primarily by high school students. Multiperspectivity is a widespread buzzword that is rarely lived up to. This podcast is quite different. It will greatly enrich (not only) the German debate.”
— Prof. Simon W. Fuchs, Hebrew University of Jerusalem
“They should be applauded for their maturity and inner resoluteness in confronting some of the most painful legacies of our time.”
— Dr. Yael Danieli, UN Senior Representative
“The students did an amazing job assembling this series and organizing the individual episodes.”
— Prof. Derek Penslar, Harvard University
“What an inspiring achievement.”
— Prof. Omri Boehm, The New School
“This initiative is both extraordinary and exemplary.”
— Prof. Claus Kreß, co-author of the Rome Statute; Special Adviser to the ICC; Judge ad hoc at the ICJ
“A fantastic project.”
— Nazih Musharbash, President, German-Palestinian Society