To wrap up 2025, we're re-posting a few of our favorite episodes from this past year. This week's redux is Episode 9 - Communication: Are You Trying to Be Interested or Interesting? As we spend time with family and friends during this holiday season, ask yourself, am I taking part in conversations in which I'm trying to be interesting or interested in others? We hope you enjoy this "Top Hit" as we wrap up 2025! And if you haven't done so yet, please Subscribe and Share our podcast with friends and family you might believe would enjoy and benefit from listening to our show.   Episode Overview (Original Notes) In this episode, Josh and John take a second pass at one of leadership’s most defining skills — communication. Moving beyond what we say to how and why we say it, they explore the motives, tendencies, and patterns that shape our words and impact our teams. Through real examples and archetypes, they help listeners identify what drives their communication habits and how self-awareness transforms connection and clarity. Key Themes & Takeaways Motives and tendencies: Awareness doesn’t erase them, but it helps leaders recognize and redirect them. Patterns and behavior: You can’t always change your wiring, but you can change your actions. Communication archetypes: The visionary, the perfectionist, and the over-talker — and what they reveal about leadership motives. Transmission and receiving: Great communication is both speaking and listening with intention. Be interested, not interesting: Curiosity builds trust more than charisma ever will. Memorable Quotes or Moments “Are you trying to be more interesting or more interested?” “Your motives aren’t going anywhere — but your patterns can change.” “You can’t delegate responsibility and still hold all the authority.” “Communication equals transmission plus receiving.” Homework / Reflection Take ten minutes this week to reflect — and write it down. Name one behavior you notice in the way you communicate (talking over, holding back, over-explaining, etc.). Ask yourself why: What’s the motive beneath it? What are you afraid of, avoiding, or trying to prove? Get feedback: Ask one trusted colleague or friend to describe how they experience your communication. Set an intention: Choose one way to practice being more interested than interesting in your next conversation.

Episode Overview To wrap up 2025, we're re-posting a few of our favorite episodes from this past year. This week's redux is Episode 3 - The "Rebrand" Episode when we moved from our earlier title (that shall go unnamed) to the current title, Leadership Limbo! If you haven't listened to this episode it's a great way to ground in the purpose of our show and understand the vision for what we're aiming to do. We hope you enjoy this "Top Hit" as we wrap up 2025! And if you haven't done so yet, please Subscribe and Share our podcast with friends and family you might believe would enjoy and benefit from listening to our show.   Original Show Notes Here: In this episode of Leadership Limbo, John and Josh explore what it means to lead from the middle—especially when the word manager often carries a negative connotation. After sharing the backstory of the podcast’s rebrand (and a trademark dispute that nudged them into “Leadership Limbo”), they dive into how leaders can reclaim management as a powerful and positive form of leadership. Drawing from Gallup’s First, Break All the Rules, they unpack the metaphor of the manager as a catalyst—someone who accelerates growth by connecting people’s talents to organizational goals. They challenge leaders to: Reframe “manager” not as a lesser version of leadership, but as a distinct and powerful form of it. Too often, the term carries negative baggage, but John and Josh argue that great management is an active, catalytic force that turns vision into reality. Prioritize knowing people’s strengths rather than over-focusing on weaknesses. Distinguish between managing versus doing, resisting the urge to “just do it yourself” or create clones of your own style. The conversation is both practical and reflective, with reminders that turnover is costly, management is active, and leaders must be intentional about setting their teams up to thrive. The episode closes with a reflection challenge: Identify 2–3 people on your team, name their strengths without condition, and ask yourself whether their current work fully leverages those strengths in service of your organization’s goals. Because in the end, being a manager isn’t about being stuck in limbo—it’s about catalyzing people and purpose. You can find copies of First, Break All of the Rules here on Amazon or wherever else you purchase your books!

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John introduce the Peace Index, a simple framework leaders can use to assess their overall health and leadership capacity. Rather than treating health as a personal side project or a physical fitness goal, the conversation reframes well-being as a foundational leadership skill that directly impacts clarity, presence, and sustainability. The Peace Index invites leaders to pause and take a holistic snapshot of their current reality across five interconnected areas: place, provision, personal health, people, and purpose. Josh explains that leadership breakdowns often begin long before performance slips appear. Mental fog, emotional reactivity, and chronic stress are usually signals that one or more of these areas is out of alignment. John adds that the value of the tool is not in perfection or scoring well, but in awareness. Leaders are often surprised by what rises to the surface when they slow down long enough to notice their environment, relationships, financial stressors, physical habits, and sense of meaning. The inventory becomes a mirror that helps leaders identify where peace is present and where strain has quietly accumulated. The conversation also explores how leadership culture often minimizes mental and emotional health, encouraging leaders to push through discomfort rather than address root causes. Josh and John challenge that norm, offering a different approach: start small, respond intentionally, and restore order where you have the most control. Sustainable leadership is not built through constant optimization, but through simple, repeatable practices that create stability over time. The episode closes by reinforcing a core idea of Leadership Limbo: leaders who tend to their own health lead with greater calm, empathy, and effectiveness. When leaders are grounded and aligned, they create healthier systems, stronger relationships, and teams that thrive rather than burn out. Key Takeaways: Leadership health is holistic, not just physical. A leader’s environment, relationships, resources, and sense of purpose shape how they show up just as much as sleep or exercise. The Peace Index works best as a routine. Its power comes from being revisited regularly, not from a single moment of reflection. Place matters more than most leaders admit. Physical spaces, digital clutter, and environmental chaos can quietly drain energy and focus. Provision affects peace. Financial stress or scarcity thinking often spills into decision-making, relationships, and leadership posture. Personal health is about progress, not perfection. Small, consistent habits matter more than ideal routines that never happen. People are central to leadership health. Disconnection, unresolved tension, or lack of community reduces capacity and resilience. Purpose takes the longest to address but has the deepest impact. When meaning feels misaligned, leaders feel it everywhere. Mental health is a whole-system signal. Feeling mentally “off” is often a cue that one or more life categories needs attention. Listener Homework: Set aside five minutes this week to walk yourself through the Peace Index. Reflect honestly on your place, provision, personal health, people, and purpose. Notice which area feels most strained right now. Choose one small, concrete action that would restore a sense of peace or order in that area. The goal is not to fix everything, but to take one step that increases clarity and capacity. Resources Referenced: GiANT Worldwide Peace Index Framework (You can read more in here in a previous blog Josh wrote about this and see the image of the tool itself)

Episode Overview: In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John shift from last week’s conversation about being developed as a leader into a new and equally essential theme: health as a leadership practice. Rather than focusing on personal goals, New Year’s resolutions, or exercise alone, they expand the idea of leadership health into a multidimensional reality. Health includes your physical state, but it also encompasses mental clarity, spiritual grounding, emotional balance, and communal connection. The hosts explore how leaders often think of health as something to “get to later,” somewhere after the deadlines, decision-making, or team management. But leadership does not pause so you can get healthy. Health is the basis from which leadership decisions, influence, connection, and clarity flow. When you are not healthy, you are more reactive, more stressed, more scattered, and less able to show up with the calm, grounded presence your team needs. Josh and John walk through why health matters both for the leader and for the team. Health is not only about self-preservation. When you are at your best, you are more attuned to the people you lead, better able to sense their stress, notice their energy, and create conditions where collective performance feels sustainable rather than depleting. A healthy leader models integration rather than martyrdom, and this subtle modeling creates permission and clarity for others to pursue healthy, integrated habits as well. They also unpack why leaders often neglect health, not intentionally but accidentally. Busyness, pressure, and habit shape our daily operating system, and when life gets chaotic we default to whatever has been baked into our history: overwork, proving ourselves, numbing distractions, and performance behaviors that feel urgent in the moment but quietly erode long-term well-being. The episode explores how industries, expectations, ego, and culture normalize unhealthy rhythms and turn exhaustion into a badge of honor. The conversation ends with a clear worldview: leadership is relational, and health is relational. When leaders are at their best, they can perceive what their teams need, stay grounded in complexity, and create conditions where people thrive rather than survive. The episode sets up next week’s conversation, which will focus entirely on practical strategies, healthy rhythms, and crowd-sourced examples from listeners. Key Insights: Health is multidimensional. Leadership requires more than physical stamina. It requires curiosity, spiritual grounding, mental clarity, communal belonging, and the emotional steadiness that makes space for others. A leader’s health creates a ripple effect. When you are grounded, clear, attuned, and integrated, your team feels safer, more focused, and more confident. When you are depleted or reactive, your team absorbs more than you realize and begins compensating for you, resenting you, or disorganizing around you. Most leaders neglect health accidentally. When pressure mounts, we revert to old habits: over-functioning, proving, staying late, numbing, hustling for worth, taking on too much, or confusing urgency for leadership. These patterns feel productive in the moment but undermine presence, clarity, and relational trust. Healthy leadership is integrative, not comparative. It is not about being healthier than everyone else or earning a wellness score. It is about aligning your personal practices, relationships, and rhythms so that leadership feels sustainable rather than sacrificial. Work-life balance is often the wrong frame. Integration—connecting your identity, well-being, work, purpose, and relationships—is a healthier lens than trying to keep them separate or competing. Listener Homework: Reflect on one question this week: What is the single biggest barrier to becoming the healthiest version of yourself as a leader? Share it with the show so Josh and John can surface real examples from listeners and address the

Episode Summary: In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John turn the conversation inward. After several weeks focused on how to develop others, they explore the other side of the equation—how to be developed. Whether you’re a middle manager, senior leader, or individual contributor, your willingness to be coached, challenged, and stretched is the foundation of your growth. The hosts unpack what it looks like to approach development with openness rather than defensiveness, curiosity rather than cynicism. They revisit the pursuer–distancer dynamic from previous episodes, this time flipping the lens: instead of chasing reluctant team members, how can you stop distancing yourself from the people trying to help you grow? The conversation dives into the role of ego, exploring how skepticism (“they don’t understand my work”) and excuses (“my boss doesn’t develop me”) often mask insecurity or fear. Josh and John walk through ways to reframe these stories, run small mindset experiments, and re-engage in genuine learning. They also emphasize humble curiosity—not asking questions to prove a point, but asking to discover something new. Alongside this mindset, they talk about the importance of advocating for what you need and building a collaborative relationship with your manager. The episode closes with a seasonal reminder about gratitude—both expressing and receiving it—as one of the most powerful yet underused tools for sustaining healthy development relationships. Key Takeaways: Being developed is a choice. You can’t control your manager’s skill level, but you can control your posture and curiosity. Watch for cynicism and defensiveness. Phrases like “they don’t get it” or “this won’t work for me” usually reveal ego, not truth. Run the reframe experiment. Instead of “my boss doesn’t care,” try “my boss might care in ways I don’t yet see.” Look for small evidence of their effort. Development is a two-way relationship. Managers can’t read your mind—advocate for what you need, clarify what helps, and initiate feedback loops. Model what you expect from others. You can’t give what you don’t possess. Showing up as a learner sets the tone for your team. Gratitude multiplies development. Leaders who express genuine appreciation build trust, retention, and resilience in their teams. Listener Homework: Reflect on your posture toward being developed. Are you open, curious, and receptive—or defensive, cynical, and closed? Identify one relationship where you might be distancing yourself from feedback or growth. This week, take one small step to re-engage: Ask a question instead of making an assumption. Invite feedback rather than waiting for it. Express gratitude to someone who has invested in your growth. Lean toward curiosity and connection—it’s where learning begins. Resources Mentioned: How to Know a Person — David BrooksThe Coaching Habit — Michael Bungay Stanier Humble Inquiry — Edgar H. Schein The Voice-Driven Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram The 100X Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram Conscious Leadership: The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership — Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman, & Kaley Warner Klemp

Episode Summary: In this follow-up to last week’s discussion on the Development Square, Josh and John explore what happens after you’ve identified where someone is on their growth journey. Once you know where a team member stands—whether they’re in the foundation, immersion, empowerment, or multiplication stage—the next step is figuring out how to coach, teach, and lead them toward mastery. The hosts dig into two essential relationship dynamics that can either fuel or frustrate development: Pursuer vs. Distancer, where one person chases growth while the other avoids it, and Over-functioner vs. Under-functioner, where a leader tries to “save” others or a learner waits passively to be rescued. Drawing from David Brooks’ book How to Know a Person, they discuss what it means to practice accompaniment—walking alongside someone rather than solving problems for them. They pair this with practical frameworks from The Coaching Habit (Michael Bungay Stanier) and Humble Inquiry (Edgar Schein), showing how asking the right questions can rebalance responsibility and deepen learning. The episode then transitions into “gradual release”—a core concept in education that applies powerfully to leadership. Josh and John break down each stage of the model (“I do, you watch” → “I do, you help” → “You do, I help” → “You do, I watch”), explaining how leaders can adjust their coaching, feedback, and proximity as people grow in competence and confidence. Along the way, they tackle the tension between personalizing learning and maintaining accountability, and remind listeners that development requires both structure and stretch. Key Takeaways: Accompaniment builds trust and ownership.True development happens when leaders walk with others, not ahead of them. Beware of over- or under-functioning.Over-functioners rescue; under-functioners retreat. Both limit growth. Ask more, tell less.Use inquiry to invite thinking and responsibility—especially as people gain competence. Name the criteria for success.Learners need to know what “good” looks like before they can reach it. Gradual release is the art of letting go.Effective leaders fade their support as skill and confidence rise. Balance personalization with accountability.Adapt your approach, but don’t avoid necessary discomfort—growth lives there. Feedback loops sustain progress.Check for understanding early and often. Real-time coaching prevents drift. Listener Homework: Return to the team member you identified last week in the Development Square exercise. Ask yourself: Are you over-functioning or under-functioning in your support? Are you telling too much—or asking too little? Identify one way to rebalance your dynamic this week—whether it’s using a coaching question, creating clearer criteria for success, or scheduling a real-time feedback moment. Resources Mentioned: How to Know a Person — David Brooks The Coaching Habit — Michael Bungay Stanier Humble Inquiry — Edgar H. Schein The Voice-Driven Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram The 100X Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram Concept: “Gradual Release of Responsibility” (Pearson & Gallagher, 1983)

Episode Summary: In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John dive deeper into their ongoing series on developing others, introducing a practical and powerful framework known as the Development Square from The Voice-Driven Leader by Jeremie Kubicek and Steve Cockram. Building on last week’s conversation about mindset (“To Me” vs. “By Me”), this episode explores how leaders can translate self-awareness into actionable systems for developing people. The duo walk through the four stages of development—Foundation, Immersion, Empowerment, and Multiplication—and unpack how each represents a distinct phase of learning and growth. Josh explains how the model builds on Maslow’s hierarchy of competence (from unconscious incompetence to unconscious competence) and helps leaders identify where each team member is on their learning journey. Together, they emphasize that development is not an event—it’s a continual process of awareness, feedback, and adaptation. They also highlight the emotional side of development: the “pit of despair” when confidence collapses, and the “green room” where skill mastery can become comfort or complacency. Through humor, stories, and practical examples—from new teachers to medical dramas—Josh and John make the case that great leaders must not only recognize these stages but actively guide others through them. Key Takeaways: Development isn’t management—and it isn’t an event.True growth is woven into daily leadership, not reserved for workshops or annual reviews. Everyone learns differently.What worked for you may not work for them. Development requires empathy, flexibility, and intentionality. The Four Stages of Development: Foundation (Unconscious Incompetence): “I do, you watch.” Excitement is high, competence is low. Immersion (Conscious Incompetence): “I do, you help.” Mistakes rise, confidence dips—learning begins. Empowerment (Conscious Competence): “You do, I help.” Skill is growing, autonomy increases. Multiplication (Unconscious Competence): “You do, I watch.” Mastery emerges—and it’s time to develop others. Beware the “pit of despair.”When confidence collapses, leaders must support—not rescue—those they lead. Don’t get stuck in the “green room.”Competence can lead to complacency; stretch high performers by challenging them to multiply others. Your mindset still drives your method.Even with a strong framework, self-preservation and ego can derail development. Stay other-oriented. Listener Homework: Think about one person you’re developing right now—a colleague, direct report, or team member. Identify which stage of development they’re currently in: Foundation, Immersion, Empowerment, or Multiplication. Ask yourself: What do they need from me at this stage? More modeling and demonstration? Shoulder-to-shoulder feedback? Space to practice with support? Stretch opportunities to mentor others? Bonus reflection: Where are you in your own development journey—and what kind of support would help you grow next? Resources Mentioned: The Voice-Driven Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram The 100X Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram The Drama Triangle — Dr. Stephen Karpman Sacred Hoops — Phil Jackson (with Hugh Delehanty) Conscious Leadership: The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership — Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman, & Kaley Warner Klemp The Pit (TV Series) — referenced as an analogy for teaching and skill progression

Episode Summary: In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John continue their mini-series on developing others, widening the lens to explore the deeper mindsets that shape how leaders respond to challenges. Drawing from the model in Conscious Leadership, they unpack the four mindsets—To Me, By Me, Through Me, and As Me—and examine how each one influences the way we navigate difficulty, communicate, and develop the people around us. The conversation explores how easy it is for leaders to slip into a reactive To Me posture, especially in seasons of uncertainty or self-preservation. From there, they highlight how shifting toward By Me opens the door to agency, responsibility, and creativity—breaking the cycle of blame or helplessness. Josh and John also reflect on higher levels of leadership consciousness—operating Through Me or As Me—and what it means to move from control to presence, from tension to groundedness, and from reactivity to intentionality. They share personal stories, real-life examples, and moments of self-awareness that reveal the subtle but powerful nature of mindset shifts. The episode ultimately reminds leaders that developing others begins with developing ourselves. How we interpret our circumstances shapes how we show up, how we listen, and how we build capacity in the people we influence. Key Takeaways: Most leaders operate in “To Me” more than they realize.This reactive mindset amplifies stress and reduces agency, setting the tone for how we lead and develop others. Shifting to “By Me” unlocks creativity and ownership.The combination of responsibility, curiosity, and intentional choice breaks the Drama Triangle and restores empowerment. “Through Me” and “As Me” represent deeper, grounded presence.These states help leaders move from controlling outcomes to participating in them with clarity and calm. Self-preservation keeps leaders from developing others.When fear, fatigue, or insecurity take over, development gets replaced by protection, avoidance, or withdrawal. Small, consistent reframes create meaningful change.Leaders don’t need enlightenment—they need awareness in the moment and a willingness to take the next small step. Listener Homework: Identify one challenge you’re facing right now—something that feels heavy, unfair, frustrating, or stuck. Write down the story you are currently telling yourself about it (the “To Me” version). Then choose one small shift toward a “By Me” mindset. What question could you ask? What action is within your control? What perspective could open up agency instead of helplessness? Keep it small. Keep it honest. Keep it doable. Resources Mentioned: Conscious Leadership: The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership — Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman, Kaley Warner Klemp The Drama Triangle — Dr. Stephen Karpman The 100X Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram Sacred Hoops — Phil Jackson (with Hugh Delehanty) What About Bob? — Frank Oz (Director)

Episode Summary: In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John kick off a new mini-series on one of the most essential—and misunderstood—skills of leadership: developing others. Building on their recent conversations about communication and self-awareness, they explore how our intentions to help can sometimes derail growth when we lead from the wrong mindset. Drawing from the Drama Triangle framework, they unpack three common leadership archetypes that show up under stress: the Persecutor (Villain), the Rescuer (Hero), and the Victim. Each has good intentions but can end up disempowering others, creating dependency, or spreading frustration. Through stories, humor, and reflection, they reveal what’s really happening beneath these patterns and how to shift toward healthier, growth-oriented postures: The Challenger (instead of the Persecutor) The Coach (instead of the Rescuer) The Creator (instead of the Victim) The episode reframes development as the act of fighting for others’ highest good. It challenges leaders to move from control to empowerment, from rescuing to equipping, and from “woe is me” to “what can we create together?” Key Takeaways: Awareness is the first act of development.Every leader can slip into the Drama Triangle. The goal isn’t perfection—it’s noticing when it happens and choosing a better response. Persecutors become Challengers.Replace micromanagement and blame with curiosity and accountability. Challenge others to own their growth. Rescuers become Coaches.Stop over-helping. Use questions and patience to guide others toward their own solutions instead of fixing for them. Victims become Creators.Trade helplessness for agency. Acknowledge the challenge, then focus on what’s within your power to move forward. Leadership development is love in action.Great leaders don’t remove struggle—they walk with others through it, building confidence and autonomy along the way. Listener Homework: Reflect on one person you currently lead, coach, or collaborate with. Which of the three Drama Triangle tendencies (Persecutor, Rescuer, Victim) do you most often fall into with them? What would it look like to flip that pattern this week—by becoming a Challenger, Coach, or Creator instead? Notice how that shift changes both your mindset and their engagement. If you’re not managing people right now, try this reflection with a teammate, family member, or friend. The same dynamics apply everywhere we influence others. Resources Mentioned: The Drama Triangle (Stephen Karpman) – the foundational model discussed in this episode. Radical Candor by Kim Scott – on the balance between care and challenge (“ruinous empathy” connects to the Rescuer pattern). A Failure of Nerve by Edwin H. Friedman – referenced by Josh for its insight on leadership courage and the “non-anxious presence.” The 100X Leader by Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram – for the “Sherpa mindset” of fighting for the highest good of others.

In this special episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John welcome their very first guest — Michael Sykes, founder and CEO of Equitable Solutions and author of Easy Equity. Michael brings warmth, wisdom, and candor to a conversation that explores what it truly means to lead from love. Together, they unpack how leadership begins with self-awareness and healing — and how that inner work ripples outward into teams, organizations, and communities. Michael shares stories from his own journey as a middle manager navigating conflicting expectations, and how mistakes, reflection, and intentionality helped him transform his approach to leadership. The conversation explores themes of affirmation, mindfulness, and manifestation, inviting leaders to align their “future self” with present actions. Michael challenges the idea that leadership is about control or charisma, instead defining it as removing barriers so others can thrive. From burnout to belonging, from self-denial to authenticity, this episode reminds us that the most sustainable and equitable leadership starts with loving ourselves well — so we can lead others with compassion, presence, and purpose. Check out Michael's work at https://equitablesolutions.net/ and follow him on LinkedIn as well. You can find his book Easy Equity for purchase on his site, too.  Key Takeaways Include: Leadership is about supporting your team, not just producing results. Finding joy requires intentionality and can be found in small moments. Authentic relationships are crucial for leveraging team strengths. Self-affirmation is key to effective leadership and personal growth. Manifestation involves aligning current actions with future goals. Emotional intelligence (EQ) is more important than intellectual intelligence (IQ) in leadership. Burnout often stems from misalignment with personal values and overextension. Leaders should prioritize self-care to avoid resentment and burnout. Mistakes are opportunities for growth and should be owned by leaders. Creating a positive environment starts with self-love and validation.

In this episode, Josh and John continue their exploration of communication—this time shifting from what we say to how we listen. Building on last week’s focus on the Communication Code, they unpack how defensiveness, distractions, and the pressure to sound competent can quietly sabotage genuine connection. Through personal stories and honest reflection, they explore how slowing down, summarizing, and removing noise are all acts of leadership, not just courtesy. They discuss the ripple effects of poor listening on trust, culture, and team engagement, and how small changes—like a pause before responding or a quick summary of what you heard—can completely reshape how people experience being led. Together, they reframe listening as a core leadership discipline that drives clarity, confidence, and connection. Key Takeaways: Silence communicates attentiveness and respect. Summarizing before responding builds alignment and trust. Leaders model active listening by removing distractions and creating space for others’ voices. Homework for Listeners:Take a few minutes this week to complete a quick Active Listening Audit.Rate yourself 1–5 on each statement and identify one area to strengthen. I let others finish speaking before I respond. I summarize what I heard before offering my view. I ask open-ended questions that deepen understanding. I minimize distractions—no screens, no multitasking. I clarify what the other person needs: empathy or solutions. I pause before speaking to fully process what I’ve heard. I follow up when needed to close the communication loop. Reflection Prompt:When was the last time you felt truly heard—and what might it take to create that experience for others? Mentioned in This Episode:The Communication Code – Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram, GiANT Worldwide  

In this episode, Josh and John unpack a deceptively simple but powerful truth: communication is both transmission and reception — and most leaders focus too heavily on the former. Drawing from the Communication Codeframework by GiANT Worldwide, they explore how intention, clarity, and receptivity shape every conversation — at work, at home, and in the spaces in between. They open with reflections on personal rhythms, learning events, and the importance of walking (for knees and for clarity) before diving into the art of setting conditions for effective communication. John shares insights from Simon Sinek’s “Know Your Why” and The Atlantic’s piece on distracted parenting, illustrating how modern distractions erode our ability to truly listen and receive. Josh introduces the five core intentions of communication — to care, celebrate, critique, clarify, and collaborate — and how naming these purposes can transform meetings, relationships, and team culture. Together, they break down how misalignment between intention and perception can derail trust, and how explicit communication framing helps teams stay connected and emotionally attuned. Key Takeaways: Communication is not complete without both transmission and reception. Setting the conditions for communication (minimizing distraction, clarifying intent) is foundational. The five communication codes—Care, Celebrate, Critique, Clarify, Collaborate—help leaders name the whybehind what they say. Explicitly naming your communication intent improves trust and reduces misinterpretation. Celebration and care are often undervalued but essential forms of communication that sustain team health. Homework for Listeners: In your next team meeting or 1:1, name the type of communication you’re using: Are you collaborating, clarifying, or critiquing? Are you showing care or celebration? Use this awareness to align your intent with how others receive it. And for an extra challenge — find a way to intentionally celebrate someone or something this week. Reflection Prompt: How often do you name your intention before communicating — and how might doing so change the way your message lands? Mentioned in This Episode: Simon Sinek – “Know Your Why” (video clip) The Atlantic (2018) – “The Dangers of Distracted Parenting” The Communication Code – Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram, GiANT Worldwide Closing Quote: “Your job as a leader isn’t just to say what you mean — it’s to make sure it lands with your team.” – Josh Hugo

In this episode, Josh and John take a second pass at one of leadership’s most defining skills — communication. Moving beyond what we say to how and why we say it, they explore the motives, tendencies, and patterns that shape our words and impact our teams. Through real examples and archetypes, they help listeners identify what drives their communication habits and how self-awareness transforms connection and clarity. Key Themes & Takeaways Motives and tendencies: Awareness doesn’t erase them, but it helps leaders recognize and redirect them. Patterns and behavior: You can’t always change your wiring, but you can change your actions. Communication archetypes: The visionary, the perfectionist, and the over-talker — and what they reveal about leadership motives. Transmission and receiving: Great communication is both speaking and listening with intention. Be interested, not interesting: Curiosity builds trust more than charisma ever will. Memorable Quotes or Moments “Are you trying to be more interesting or more interested?” “Your motives aren’t going anywhere — but your patterns can change.” “You can’t delegate responsibility and still hold all the authority.” “Communication equals transmission plus receiving.” Homework / Reflection Take ten minutes this week to reflect — and write it down. Name one behavior you notice in the way you communicate (talking over, holding back, over-explaining, etc.). Ask yourself why: What’s the motive beneath it? What are you afraid of, avoiding, or trying to prove? Get feedback: Ask one trusted colleague or friend to describe how they experience your communication. Set an intention: Choose one way to practice being more interested than interesting in your next conversation.

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John dive into one of the most foundational—and often overlooked—skills of leadership: communication. Picking up from their exploration of performance and management, they shift focus to the ways leaders communicate with their teams, their peers, and their managers. The conversation unpacks a simple but powerful formula: Communication = Transmission + Reception. It’s not enough to just speak or listen—both have to work in tandem for true understanding. Josh and John frame today’s tension as the gap between accidental communication and intentional communication. Too often, leaders over-invest in the intentional while overlooking how much influence their “accidental” moments - or overall lack of self-awareness and intentionality about their communication - can have on team trust, alignment, and culture. Along the way, they share personal reflections on their own communication gaps—Josh’s tendency to over-talk as a verbal processor, John’s habit of letting facial expressions betray his thoughts—and highlight why building self-awareness is essential. They also introduce practical tools, linked below: Blindspotting – A model for uncovering motives and tendencies that drive leadership behaviors. The Five Voices – A personality-based framework for understanding your natural communication style and how others receive it. The big takeaway? Leaders need to narrow the gap between formal and informal communication by increasing self-awareness and choosing intentionality in both. Communication is the foundation of alignment, execution, and trust—and without it, even the best strategies fall flat.   Resources: Free 5 Voice Assessment and Report:  Click Here Blindspotting: Click Here

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John reflect on the central thesis of their podcast—leadership is about navigating polarities, not choosing sides. From transparency versus discretion to friendship versus professionalism, they dig into the tensions leaders constantly toggle between and how these dynamics shape team culture and effectiveness. Josh shares insights from Edwin Friedman’s A Failure of Nerve and the concept of self-differentiation, while John highlights the practical realities of leading through both collaboration and decisive direction. They also explore the Sherpa mentality from The 100X Leader, reframing leadership success as helping others reach the summit rather than chasing individual achievement. The conversation surfaces four key relational tensions managers face with their teams: Transparency vs. Discretion Friendship/Friendliness vs. Professionalism Collaboration vs. Decision-Making Advocacy vs. Directive Management Josh and John remind listeners that effective leaders don’t settle on one side of these spectrums—they learn to toggle with intentionality. The episode closes with a reflective exercise using two “thermometers”: one measuring how well you’re performing, and the other how well you’re leading performers. The challenge: notice gaps and identify where your leadership toggle might need to shift. Resources Mentioned: Feel free to check out two books referenced in this episode, as well: A Failure of Nerve, by Edwin Friedman  The 100x Leader,  by Steve Cockram and Jeremie Kubicek

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark continue their multi-part series on identity shifts in leadership. Building on last week’s focus on how stepping into management reshapes relationships, today’s conversation zeroes in on one of the most critical dynamics for any middle manager: your relationship with your own manager. Josh and John explore what makes this relationship healthy and productive, starting with the foundation of trust and moving into practical elements like: High Support + High Challenge: Creating a liberating environment through balanced accountability and encouragement. Intentional Two-Way Communication: Ensuring not just that information is transmitted, but also truly received and understood. Autonomy + Accountability: Striking the right balance between independence and responsibility to your boss. Mutual Belief: Not just expecting your manager to believe in you, but actively showing belief in them. Managing Up: Bringing forward the realities of your team so your manager has the visibility needed to lead effectively. They also highlight common pitfalls that can derail this relationship—like unclear communication systems, falling into a “what have you done for me lately” mindset, or passively waiting to be developed—and offer strategies to avoid them. The episode closes with practical reflection tools for listeners: Conduct a two-way communication audit to identify and close gaps. Apply the Red-Yellow-Green framework to your current projects to clarify decision-making authority and opportunities for growth in autonomy. Several helpful resources were referenced in this episode.  See the links below for more information: Cory Scheer's book: Closing the Trust Gap.  Patrick Lencioni's book: The Advantage.      

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John dive into one of the most significant transitions leaders face: the shift in identity that comes with moving into management. Building on last week’s discussion around vision and internalization, they explore how stepping into leadership changes relationships with yourself, your peers, and your work. The conversation covers four key dynamics: The weight of authority – how new leaders experience both the responsibility and temptations of positional power. Stress and tendencies – why under pressure, managers often revert to old habits, and how intentional development can prevent missteps. “TIDKWIDT” (The I Don’t Know What I Did Today challenge) – the common struggle of defining success when the work shifts from doing tasks to guiding people. Vertical shifts in relationships – the reality that becoming “the manager” alters how peers and teams perceive and engage with you. Josh and John offer practical tools to navigate these changes, including the “Leader Mirror” (a framework for reflecting on reactivity, intentionality, and consistency) and the importance of building a trusted circle to provide honest feedback. They also invite listeners to share their own experiences with identity shifts in leadership, setting up future episodes on relationships with managers and direct reports. As always, the episode blends lived experience with practical strategies, making space for the tension of leadership while equipping mid-level leaders to grow with awareness and purpose.

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John explore the role of vision in leadership, especially for middle managers who often inherit rather than create vision. They emphasize the importance of fully internalizing and integrating vision into daily practices, even when you are already aligned. The conversation dives into the tension that arises when managers don’t fully agree with a vision. Josh shares a framework for self-reflection through the lens of self-preservation behaviors: asking What am I afraid of losing? What am I trying to hide? What am I trying to prove? John introduces the principle of “disagree and commit,” highlighting how leaders can create space for healthy debate, then unite in full commitment once a decision is made. The episode closes with four practical takeaways for managers: Internalize your organization’s vision so you can teach it. Integrate vision into daily conversations and priorities. Reflect on self-preservation tendencies that may cause resistance. Disagree and commit to build trust, alignment, and follow-through.

Leadership Limbo explores why management matters, reframing managers as catalysts who unlock strengths and drive organizational goals.

Episode Summary – Leadership Limbo In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John dig into the realities of “the middle” in leadership—focusing especially on middle management. They frame leadership through three paradigms: being in the middle of the org chart, navigating career transitions, and balancing the internal work of leading yourself while leading others. The conversation highlights the challenges and opportunities of middle management, from building credibility and shifting relationships, to getting results through others without falling into micromanagement. They also explore the tension of carrying out someone else’s vision, managing up while still supporting your team, and the identity shifts that come with moving into leadership roles. The hosts emphasize that management and leadership are not separate—managers must lead, and when done well, the role can be life-giving. They leave listeners with a reflective “3-2-1” exercise: 3 leadership successes, 2 current opportunities/challenges, 1 action step for next week. This episode offers practical insights, thought-provoking questions, and a reminder that leadership is about unlocking the potential of others while navigating the tensions of the in-between