"It's not an emptiness or a void, it's actually full of possibility. And once I started to explore it, how they explained it, the Japanese concept is about when you listen to music, there's always space between the notes. And then if you apply that to a book or a page, there's always space between the words. So that space, that white space, another way of describing, it is necessary." Susan Ni Chriodain   David, Susanne and I come together for a wide-ranging conversation about liminal spaces - the spaces between words, seasons, endings and beginnings. We explore why these in-between moments matter, why we often rush to fill them, and what becomes possible when we allow pause, uncertainty and not-knowing. The conversation covers: seasons and transitions in life and in work endings that haven’t fully ended listening, silence and the courage to say “I don’t know” This episode is an invitation to notice what we usually overlook and to consider what might emerge when we willingly inhabit the space between. Dr Susanne Evans is an organisation change consultant, trainer, coach and researcher on a mission to change the way that transformations are managed in organisations. She founded Feldspar Consulting in 2007 to help her clients lead change in a more human, effective way. As well as writing and speaking about organisation change, Susanne hosts open storytelling workshops, supporting organisations and individuals in writing a compelling story for themselves. She is the author of ChangeStories and the host of the popular ChangeStories podcast.   David Lee is a coach, consultant, workshop facilitator, keynote speaker, and author, who loves creating a win/win/win relationship between people and the organizations they work for. He helps leaders and leadership teams learn how to become "people whisperers", and by doing so, increase their ability to make their organization THE choice for "A List Talent" and inspire the best in their people.   Connect with Susanne On LinkedIn Through her website: Feldspar Consulting Listen to Change Stories podcast   Connect with David On LinkedIn  Through his website Human Nature at Work   Resources Mentioned: Dr Seuss, Oh, The Places You'll Go The In-Between Book, Christopher Willard, Olivia Weisser, Alison Oliver Tending To Endings Cards https://www.tendingtoendings.com/ 

"I'm only a small cog in this. I'm developing this thought about trying to do good, but we can't all do it alone. If we can all collectively hold hands and all just have this thought that if we can do good in this world… I do think that there's a lot to be said for farming and fresh produce because it's feeding the world in a sustainable manner and it's doing good." Max MacGillivray   Max MacGillivray and I begin with stories about fresh produce and taste memories, before moving into how society has become disconnected from where food comes from. We explore farming as a vocation, global food systems, ultra-processed foods, health outcomes, education and the role of large food multinationals. We also discuss recruitment and leadership within agriculture and fresh produce, cross-sector learning, the value of conversation and storytelling and why showing the human side of food production matters. We reflect on travel, networking as human connection and the opportunities that open up when people step beyond familiar paths. Max MacGillivray is an executive recruiter and founder of Redfox Executive Selection, specialising in mid-management to board hires across fresh produce, fresh foods, agri-business and retail in the UK and internationally. He created The Great Fruit & Veg Adventure—a Triumph motorbike ride from London to Cape Town (18 countries, 18,000 km), visiting 50+ fresh-produce businesses, followed in real time by 250,000 schoolchildren, and honoured with the UK Prime Minister’s Points of Light award. Max also founded Beanstalk Global, a media platform for the international fresh-food sector. Its mantra: “Create the conversation, don’t just be part of it.” Through broadcasts, interviews and partnerships, Beanstalk Global champions the people behind fresh food and connects purpose-led clients with high-impact opportunities. Connect with Max Through his website www.beanstalk.global   https://www.facebook.com/beanstalk.global On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maxmacgillivray/ https://www.beanstalkmedia.co.uk/   Resources Mentioned: Jeremy Clarkson and increasing public interest in farming and agriculture Henry Dimbleby and the UK National Food Strategy Pink Lady Apples  International Fresh Produce Association (IFPA) and the International Fresh Produce & Floral Show (Anaheim) Leaf Open Farm Sunday – UK farming initiative  

"A new type of thinking is essential if humankind is to survive and reach higher levels." Marsha Ramroop (quoting Einstein)   Marsha Ramroop explains how her purpose, giving the unheard voice a place to speak, first emerged during her broadcasting career, and how it now shapes her work in cultural intelligence and organisational change. We explore inclusion and why under-representation is a symptom of deeper cultural and behavioural issues. Marsha introduces Cultural Intelligence (CQ) and its four capabilities, showing how they help us work and relate effectively across difference. We also discuss the wider context of global uncertainty, polarisation and the need for, as Marsha quotes, “a new type of thinking”. Throughout, she emphasises personal responsibility, listening with intent, and the impact small behavioural shifts can have on teams, organisations and society. This conversation is packed, practical and human - an invitation to look inward, listen more deeply and consider the behaviours that help everyone feel valued, respected and included. Marsha Ramroop is a global award-winning organisational inclusion strategist, author, and speaker with a passion for driving change across sectors - particularly in the built and natural environments - with her own consultancy Unheard Voice. Marsha’s book Building Inclusion: Practical Guide to Inclusion in Architecture & the Built Environment speaks about how to deliver inclusion; how we attract a diversity of people to our professions and organisations, retain that diversity, create inclusion in our services and engage external stakeholders inclusively. It was Highly Commended in the 2025 Business Book Awards. She had a 30-year career in broadcasting, bringing inclusion to BBC newsrooms through journalism, before turning to organisational culture consultancy.Connect with Marsha Through her websites www.unheardvoice.co.uk   www.buildinginclusion.info LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/marsharamroop Instagram https://www.instagram.com/marsharamroop/   Resources Building Inclusion by Marsha Ramroop Marcus Ryder & Lenny Henry — Manifesto for TV and Beyond (UK demographic data from the Office for National Statistics) Dale Carnegie — How to Win Friends and Influence People Paulo Freire & Adam Rutherford The Doomsday Clock Leading Beyond the Numbers by Susan Ní Chríodáin Business Book Awards 2025

“But getting back to the power of proximity, let's say I would meet people on Twitter … then we would all go to South by Southwest Interactive, the big tech conference in Austin … Suddenly we'd meet in person and as I wrote about in my book, it's hugs, high fives, handshakes.” Dave Delaney   Dave Delaney joins me to talk about the thing that most connects us - communication. From improv stages to keynote stages, from podcasting to parenting, Dave’s career has been about helping people connect with humour, heart and humanity. We talk about the roots of communication, how “nice and” can change a workplace, and what happens when we forget that listening is about understanding, not just replying. Dave shares insights on how improv principles like acceptance and curiosity can transform teamwork and leadership. We also explore networking and the power of proximity: why meeting in person still matters more than ever in an age of AI and automation. And yes, we even touch on the slightly alarming prospect of not knowing whether your boss (or TV presenter) is human.   Dave Delaney is a communication expert, keynote speaker, author, and host of the ADHD Wise Squirrels podcast.   Connect with Dave To connect with Dave use this link: https://davedelaney.me/linkage   Resources Mentioned New Business Networking by Dave Delaney Wise Squirrels Podcast hosted by Dave Delaney    

“80 years ago, the Institute for Functional Medicine started collecting the data, doing the research, and that's their number one priority, that it's really evidence-based and you will have clinical studies for everything. But then they also wanted it to be patient-centred. They wanted to listen to the unique story of everybody." Blanka Campbell   Blanka Campbell and I talk about the wisdom — and limits — of listening to our body. A functional nutritionist and wellbeing coach, Blanka helps people understand their health through the lens of functional nutrition and everyday life. We talk about eating the rainbow, chaos in the gut and why every symptom tells part of a bigger story. Blanka reminds us that it’s not enough to simply listen — we have to translate what we hear into choices that support balance, energy and focus. Blanka reminds us that health isn’t about perfection — it’s about function, balance, and care. And that wellbeing isn’t something we add on; it’s the way we live.    Blanka Campbell is a functional medicine practitioner and holistic nutritionist, a hormone yoga therapist (Dinah Rodrigues), and a single mum of two teenagers trying to balance it all.    Connect with Blanka Through her website www.blankacampbell.com where you will find all the links to social media   Resources Mentioned The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk Biocare, UK, for supplements Sam Allen, episode 120 Reconnecting  

"My interest is beyond that. Beyond the solar system. Of course I have this interest in Mars, but what I'm really interested in is the post planetary condition of humankind.” Angelo Vermeulen   Angelo Vermeulen and I talk about imagination, exploration, and what it means to lead and collaborate beyond boundaries. Angelo is  a scientist and a visual artist, who loves to build crossovers between those two worlds. He shares how exploring deeply across disciplines — from biology to philosophy to design — shapes the way we understand creativity, leadership and the future of humanity. His work invites us to think not just about life on Earth, but what life beyond the solar system might look like. We talk about creativity as a universal skill, leadership in extreme environments, finding courage to express our ideas and why co-creation demands vulnerability and trust. Angelo shares stories from his time leading a Mars simulation in Hawaii, collaborating with ESA on space systems design and exploring the evolution of our species, including IVF in space.    Angelo Vermeulen is a space biologist, complex systems engineer, and artist who integrates science, design, and ecology to explore the future of human life in extreme environments. At TU Delft, he develops bio-inspired systems for space settlement, including self-replicating architecture and bioregenerative life support. As CTO of SpaceBorn United, he leads the development of the world’s first IVF incubator designed for space, advancing research on human reproduction beyond Earth. He co-founded SEADS, a transdisciplinary collective whose work has been exhibited across continents and flown to the International Space Station. In 2013, he commanded the first NASA-funded HI-SEAS Mars simulation, and in 2022, he reached the top 6% in the ESA astronaut selection process. With over 60 publications and multiple fellowships—including from TED and Parsons—Angelo’s work bridges art and science to challenge how we inhabit our shared future in space and on Earth.   Connect with Angelo: Through his website: https://www.angelovermeulen.net On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angelovermeulen   References: Sir Ken Robinson’s TED Talk “Do Schools Kill Creativity?" Episode 203 All Stories are Useful with Jay Perry

"As it turns out being authentically me means more sales when it comes to marketing and everything. So that was the big lesson I learned early on. It took a very tough learning experience. But that sense of being yourself for all its flaws and all its good things as well that was a huge learning for me." Eamon FitzGerald   Eamon FitzGerald and I talk about wine. Eamon has a passion for connecting great wine makers with people who appreciate their wine and loves to share the winemaker's stories. With his new venture, WineSpark, he has created a business model that makes amazing wines accessible and affordable to regular people. Eamon spent 10 years with Naked Wines in the UK and became Managing Director within a year of joining the fast growing company. He talks openly about taking on this role at a young age, and how he learned to lead and grow a business. As he says businesses are a complex beast but the key is to focus on some simple things - not rocket science. We talk about the Customer Happiness Team and culture at Naked Wines, being yourself and the importance of quality and service for customers. Eamon also talks about wine production costs and shares some stories from his extensive travels.    Eamon FitzGerald loves discovering talented winemakers and sharing their wines and stories with his friends. He did this for 10 years when he was MD and Global Wine Director for Naked Wines in the UK and US. He spent most of his time hunting down the best independent winemakers and setting them up in business. Now back in Ireland he has set up WineSpark. WineSpark is a community of passionate wine drinkers and winemakers aiming to make the world’s best wines accessible and affordable to everyone. Eamon has worked for Decanter magazine, and on the side of a mountain in France picking grapes. He also worked in financial services in London and Dublin for Accenture.    Connect with Eamon Through his website WineSpark On Instagram On LinkedIn   Resources Mentioned If Disney Ran Your Hospital: 9 1/2 Things You Would Do Differently by Fred Lee Legacy by James Kerr Frederico Cerelli winemaker Johan Kruger winemaker Naked Wines

“There’s probably something about confidence that I back myself, that I can do more or I can strengthen this particular skill. I can learn to do a new thing.” Julie Smith   Julie Smith and I talk about the realities of confidence, humility and self-doubt and how these play out in both life and leadership. Julie describes confidence as “trust in yourself” and reminds us that nobody feels confident all the time, even if it looks that way from the outside. She highlights the hidden cost of overworking and exhaustion, potentially even burnout, to cover self-doubt and why recognising this “self-doubt tax” is so important. We also explore growth and learning, how leaders influence the mood and mindset of their teams, the difference it makes when someone says “I’d back us,” and how humility and confidence can co-exist in powerful ways.    Julie Smith is an executive coach with 3 decades of experience in supporting leaders and leadership teams. She is the author of award-winning book Coach Yourself Confident, and is currently writing book number two, Contagious Confidence. ****Coach Yourself Confident won Business Self Development Book of the Year at the 2025 UK Business Book Awards. Congratulations Julie!   Connect with Julie On LinkedIn Through her website: Talent Sprout   Resources Mentioned Coach Yourself Confident by Julie Smith Business Book Awards   

This is a special episode to mark the 5th anniversary and the launch of the audio book version of Leading Beyond the Numbers.    In this episode I share: 5 reflections from 5 years of podcasting: Hosting or facilitating Holding space and listening The most surprising thing... The power of voice Why this podcast still matters to me A short interview by Rob Lawrence recorded in JMS Group Studios at the end of two days spent fully immersed in recording the audio version of Leading Beyond the Numbers: How accounting for Emotions Tips the Balance at Work    Susan Ní Chríodáin is founder of Beyond the Numbers, a consulting, facilitation and coaching practice dedicated to transforming how we interact at work by placing humanity at the heart of leadership. Susan is an award-winning chartered accountant with a Big 4 background, but her career has been anything but traditional. With experience spanning continents and industries, she has combined her financial expertise with an understanding of human dynamics to help leaders and teams thrive. As the author of Leading Beyond the Numbers and host of the Life Beyond the Numbers podcast, Susan champions a fresh approach to leadership — one that embraces the power of emotions, trust and honest conversations to create workplaces where people and results thrive.   Connect with me:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susannichriodain/ Substack: https://substack.com/@thewholeequation Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/susan.ni.chriodain/   Resources Mentioned: Leading Beyond the Numbers - Audio Book Leading Beyond the Numbers - Print edition Rob Lawrence  JMS Group   

"We don't eat nutrients, we eat stories." Mari Giuseppe   Mari Giuseppe and I delve into the intricate relationship between food, culture and self-perception. Mari, a dietician with a unique approach, explains how food isn't just nutrition; it's deeply intertwined with the stories we tell ourselves. We discuss the pressures of cultural ideals, the impact of trauma on eating habits and the harmful effects of societal expectations. We laughed a lot in this conversation as Mari has such a beautifully open and honest approach and tells her truth with humour. We talked about shorts, cellulite, and the pressure to be “bikini ready” - but more than that, we reflected on how different life feels when you stop waiting for approval and come from a place of self-love and balance. This episode is full of insight, laughter and the kind of truth-telling that makes you feel lighter. And remember we are more than a number on a scale - we are human beings.    Mari Giuseppe is a qualified dietitian from Brazil, specialising in eating behaviour and mindset. Her work focuses on realistic nutrition education, respecting individual needs and the emotions behind food choices. She believes it’s not just about what we eat, but why we eat, and that transforming our relationship with food takes more than a diet – it requires compassion, active listening, and strategy. She currently works as a Nutrition Assistant within the NHS in the UK, while completing the translation and validation of her degree. Her mission is to help people break the cycle of guilt and restriction, and rebuild a lighter, healthier, and more achievable relationship with food and their bodies.   Connect with Mari
Follow her contribution on Future Proof App  On LinkedIn On Instagram    Resources Mentioned
Future Proof App Episode 204 Future Proof with James Culmer Shields

"When I first become aware that I was experiencing perimenopause, or at least put a name to what I had been experiencing for years without knowing what was going on, it was a very different world. That was just 10 to 15 years ago." Laura Haycock   Laura Haycock and I talk about her recently published book, M-Power, which addresses menopause as a critical issue that intersects with organisational culture and how we treat one another at work. Her book is rooted not just in lived experience, but in a deep understanding of culture, leadership and inclusion. Laura elaborates on the importance of understanding menopause beyond just a women's issue and highlights the systemic changes organisations can implement for a supportive environment. The discussion also touches upon the historical and societal factors that have shaped our understanding of menopause and how modern workplaces can adapt. We reflected on what it takes to lead in a changing context, where organisational effectiveness depends on recognising what people need to thrive. This is not just a conversation for women. It’s an invitation to rethink how organisations support humanity at work - by seeing what’s usually invisible.   Laura Haycock is a Chartered Psychologist and Associate Fellow of the British Psychological Society. She graduated from Oxford University in Experimental Psychology and has a Masters in Applied Psychology from Cranfield University, College of Aeronautics. Laura offers over 30 years of consultancy experience across all aspects of talent management in the UK, Americas, Asia Pacific, Europe, and Middle East & Africa. She co-directed a start-up environmental consultancy for several years. This entrepreneurial background adds to her impact as an executive coach. Through her own business, Brew People, she helps good leaders become great leaders by putting inclusion at the heart of everything they do to: identify true talent; empower high performance; connect diverse teams; and develop everyone’s full potential. She has deep expertise in empowering women through their careers and uses systems-thinking to combine actions from a strategic, practical and individual level.Connect with Laura On LinkedIn Through her website, Brew People   Resources MentionedM-Power: A Menopause Action Plan for Organizations by Laura Haycock Dr Louise Newson   

"I'm a great one for saying yes to things because I like saying yes to things .... and my husband always says, availability isn't a skill, Susanne. So, I have to remind myself of that sometimes." Dr Susanne Evans   Susanne, David and I speak about burnout. Not as a concept, but as something that we may well have to navigate in our work-lives. We talked about signs like exhaustion, disconnection, losing a sense of self. We spoke about what it was like not know what was wrong and how our bodies will take action to support us.  For me, this was the first time I shared my own experience in this way. And I offered it because I know how isolating this can feel when you’re in it. We also explore what you might do if something in this resonates with you - whether for yourself or someone you know.   Resources MentionedRushing Women's Syndrome by Dr. Libby Weaver Nuts! by Herb Kelleher An article on Parental Burnout in The Guardian The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk "The Swan" - a poem by Rainer Maria Rilke The Art of Impossible by Stephen Kotler The Power of Full Engagement by Jim Loehr and Tony Schwartz The Art of Possibility by Rosamund Stone Zander & Benjamin Zander Conscious Creativity by Philippa Stanton Wanderful by David Pearl   Dr Susanne Evans is an organisation change consultant, trainer, coach and researcher on a mission to change the way that transformations are managed in organisations. She founded Feldspar Consulting in 2007 to help her clients lead change in a more human, effective way. As well as writing and speaking about organisation change, Susanne hosts open storytelling workshops, supporting organisations and individuals in writing a compelling story for themselves. She is the author of ChangeStories and the host of the popular ChangeStories podcast.   David Lee is a coach, consultant, workshop facilitator, keynote speaker, and author, who loves creating a win/win/win relationship between people and the organizations they work for. He helps leaders and leadership teams learn how to become "people whisperers", and by doing so, increase their ability to make their organization THE choice for "A List Talent" and inspire the best in their people.   Connect with Susanne On LinkedIn Through her website: Feldspar Consulting Listen to Change Stories podcast   Connect with David On LinkedIn  Through his website Human Nature at Work

“I want to create something which fit that space and would help those people... to future-proof themselves.” James Culmer-Shields   James Culmer-Shields and I recently sat down at my kitchen table and talked about something that touches all of us: how we stay well enough as we age to live the lives we want to live. James has spent decades in the world of fitness - from his time in the military training to personal coaching to founding The Athlete Centre. Now, he’s turning his attention to something broader: how we can all live longer, healthier lives in ways that feel realistic, not overwhelming. “Let’s help the people who are sat at home… who are saying, ‘I know I need to do something. But what?’” This episode isn’t about elite training or hacks. It’s about practical ways to feel stronger, more capable and more connected to our bodies as we age. We talk about: James motivation to make longevity accessible to people who don’t have a science degree or listen to longevity experts. What future-proofing your health might look like in your 40s, 50s, 60s and beyond The importance of designing support for those who want to move more, but don’t know where to start This isn’t a how-to guide. It’s a thoughtful chat about what health and longevity can mean for you - for now and for the longer-term.    James Culmer-Shields gained invaluable insight into the high-performance world, learning what it takes to optimise the body for peak results and performance after years of working alongside professional athletes and media stars. In 2003 he established The Athlete Centre, an innovative Strength and Conditioning facility in Oxford. Turning 40 - James realised that there's more to training than just achieving physical goals or maintaining an aesthetic. It became clear that the way we approach fitness needs to evolve, particularly as we age. Thus Future Proof was born   Connect with James Sign up to the weekly newsletter at https://www.futureproofapp.com/  Download the FutureProof app Check out The Athlete Centre   Resources Mentioned Peter Attia - Drive

"So by that definition, all stories are useful. The question is: to what end?" Jay Perry   Jay Perry and I explored what happens when we begin to see story not as decoration or distraction, but as data - the language we use to survive, connect and create. Jay shared his definition that “a story is language put to use” and reminded us that “all stories are useful” - the real question being to what end? Together we examined how some stories serve connection, while others become what Jay calls “story infections” - narratives shaped by fear, judgement or diminishment. We talked about the stories that get “archived,” the ones that still run in the background long after we’ve outgrown them and what it means to interrupt or catch those stories before they shape our choices. Jay also introduced Storysphere, his community platform for engaging with stories consciously and creatively.    Jay Perry, (aka Wonder Man), has spent the last 45+ years creating communities to explore how to make the most of our human experience. In addition to Storycatchers he has created The Actors’ Information Project, The Coaching Collective, The Listening Games, and Wonder-shops. He also participated in the creation of Coach University and the International Coaching Federation. Jay is a Master Coach (MCAC), personal champion and creative partner for performers, artists, entrepreneurs, and the neurodiverse community. He is known as one of the world’s leading mentors for new coaches seeking professional certification. He is currently on the teaching faculty of The ADD Coaching Academy and the Board of Directors for the Re-Entry Coaching Academy. As co-author of Take Charge of Your Talent: three Keys to Thriving in Your Career, Organization, and Life, Jay has led workshops for thousands of people around the world on diverse topics such as business planning, leader­ship, transformational change, personal mastery, coaching skills, communication, and career planning. Jay lives in Charlottesville, Virginia, with his wife, Susan.   Connect with Jay Through his website www.jayperry.com Storysphere Central https://www.storyspherecentral.com/ Email: jay@storycatchers.net    Resources Mentioned The Big Ask, Illuminated, BBC Sounds Benjamin Zander "How Fascinating" Tim Gallwey Tim Gallwey: "capital P equals small p minus I, which stands for performance equals potential minus interference" Story Thinking by Angus Fletcher Take Charge of Your Talent by Don Maruska and Jay Perry  

"There is a pilot light running in all of us, and to me that pilot light is the artist inside us." Alexander Inchbald   Alexander Inchbald and I have an in-depth conversation about creativity and the courage to listen to something larger than ourselves. Alexander equates our inner spark - our "light" - with the artist within, present in all of us, even when dimmed. We explore the roles of different types of artists, like creators, collaborators, cultivators, and choreographers and how these roles influence personal and professional lives. He shares stories of painting in blizzards, consulting with global leaders and learning to surrender control. We talk about what surrender really means? Spoiler ... it doesn't mean wave a white flag. Alexander emphasises the need for leaders to embrace change and come from a place of inner peace to make a meaningful impact. And we talk about what is playing out in the world stage and the importance of speaking truth to power.   Alexander Inchbald is a global authority on creativity and how we can use it to reinvent business in harmony with Mother Nature. He leads The #Masterpiece Agency, designing personal journeys for purposeful pioneers (and their teams) to elevate themselves to the next level by creating and communicating their Masterpiece. He has helped over 2,000 to discover their Purpose in life. Everything he does is based on his mystical experiences painting around the world in blizzards, gale force winds and tropical storms. These experiences and his research into psychology, physiology, metaphysics and epigenentics have helped him to realise we are not passive participants in a universe beyond our control, but active creators of our own playground. He is a bestselling author a few times over, has worked on all of the UN SDGs for some of the largest and most recognised companies. His paintings have been exhibited at Google and Tesla and he lives with his family above Lake Geneva.   Connect with Alexander Through his website The #Masterpiece Agency Branding Made Simple Masterclass   Resources Mentioned Vernon Frost - esoteric teacher Sir Ken Robinson (TED Talk) ‘Do schools kill creativity?’  Masterpiece: What would you do with all the time and money in the world by Alexander Inchbald  

"At this particular moment, am I in alignment with, am I in resonance with my values, with what I stand for, with what my heart beats for?" Migena Gjerazi   In this special compilation episode, I revisit conversations from Episodes 100 to 200, to bring together moments from conversations to explore how choice isn’t always obvious, but it’s always there. Awareness opens the door. Articulation gives it form. And action, aligned action, carries it forward. You’ll hear different voices and perspectives, but the thread remains the same: we are more powerful than we realise when we give ourselves permission to see, to speak and to step. This episode is a celebration of that. Of the messy, hopeful and courageous work of being human and of choosing to continue moving towards what feels true for us.    People featured in this episode: Migena Gjerazi, Asking for Help, Episode 152 Paul Kervanis, Our Expectations, Episode 131 Rob Lawrence, Really Listening, Episode 172 Sam Allen, Reconnecting, Episode 120 Phil Dorman, What You Stand For, Episode 136 Achim Arnold, The Twin Trails, Episode 135 Carissa Bub, Hear the Silence Emerging, Episode 197 Alison Smith, A Metaphor for our Lives, Episode 178 Robyn Harris, The Answers are Inside, Episode 108 James Thirlwall, Transfixed, Episode 194

I didn’t set out to reach 200 episodes—I set out to follow the joy. And in this episode, I reflect on how joy hasn’t come from numbers or milestones, but from the moments in between - from the magic of sitting down and having real, honest conversations. Over the years, I’ve explored everything from emotional intelligence to leadership transitions, from burnout to belonging, from accounting for our emotions to creating more human workplaces. And at the heart of it all has been conversation - curious, meaningful conversation. To mark this milestone, I took myself (and the title of the episode) on a walk through London. I stopped to notice what caught my eye, and three unexpected moments - a sculpture, a street sign, and a sticker - each reminded me in their own way of the joy, the depth and the permission that conversation can hold. This episode isn’t just a celebration of a number - it’s a pause, a breath and an invitation. To slow down. To notice. To listen. Because in a world that rushes, true conversation remains one of our most powerful tools for connection and change and continues to have the power to move us.   Susan Ní Chríodáin is the host of Life Beyond the Numbers and founder of Beyond the Numbers, a leadership consultancy rooted in human connection and meaningful change. She’s the author of Leading Beyond the Numbers—an Amazon bestseller and finalist in the 2025 UK Business Book Awards (Leadership category). A former finance director turned leadership guide, Susan brings bold questions, honest conversations and an emotionally intelligent lens to how we live and lead. Through engaging interviews and thoughtful reflection, the podcast explores what really matters at work - beyond the numbers- so we can thrive as whole human beings. Resources Mentioned: This episode includes clips from  Episode 109, Collective Joy, Pete Bearder Episode 116, Challenges, Diego Adame Episode 122, What Matters Most, Solo Episode 132, Inner Development Goals, Katharina Moser Episode 133, At Our Best, Solo Episode 135, I Feel Like Me Again, Jo Hunter Episode 145, Facilitate People, John Fairhurst Episode 176, Trust, Kevin Chevis Episode 187, Willing to Take Risks, Liz Jarman Episode 190, Just a Couple of Centimeters of Care, Marc Haine I also make reference to episode 197, Hear the Silence Emerging, Carissa Bub "I Did it My Way" Frank Sinatra David Whyte    

"Playfulness is our natural state of well-being. We are playful when we are well." Chris Marshall   Chris Marshall and I explore why playfulness isn’t frivolous or childish but fundamental to how we thrive at work and in life. We discuss how playfulness helps us embrace complexity, navigate uncertainty and show up as our whole, human selves. Chris shares his multi-faceted career journey and how bringing all parts of himself into his work is an act of rebellion against boxes and niches. Together, we unpack how playfulness, far from being a distraction, is a powerful driver of well-being, creativity and leadership.   Chris Marshall is an entrepreneur and neurodivergent polymath, founder of The Playfulness Institute and Beyond Here, aiming to change the world through research and insights into playfulness and human thriving. Author, researcher, behavioural scientist, psychologist, psychotherapist, investment manager, podcaster, speaker, financial planner, and master distiller. Chris has been told by multiple PR and branding gurus that he should refine his message and concentrate on just one aspect, lest he risk losing his time-starved audience. Yet he’s ignored that advice and gone with what feels right. After all, he’s the first to admit he’s happiest spinning multiple plates. For Chris, it’s not just the joy of learning and discovery; it’s the integration and synergies that can be found between disparate fields of understanding. The golden thread that runs through his life is the aim to change the world by promoting human thriving – and the vital role that playfulness holds.   Connect with Chris On LinkedIn The Playfulness Institute website Being Playful Podcast    Resources Mentioned The Playful Advantage and Decoding Change by Chris Marshall World Happiness Day – March 20th David Whyte – poet and philosopher Leading Beyond the Numbers by Susan Ní Chríodáin Emotions at Work - Being Playful Podcast (Chris & Susan)   

"... you take people outdoors. They get into a resourceful state, you're able to explore more. You can use nature. I call it wayfinding, just like you use a compass and things like that. You can use the path you're on as a metaphor. And because you're outdoors, you can stay inquisitive longer." Murph    Murph and I explore the incredible benefits of movement, nature and human connection in leadership and decision-making. We discuss how walking and movement help unlock creativity, enhance decision-making and act as a natural "reset" for the brain​. Being outdoors helps people escape fixed thinking patterns and fosters deeper, more meaningful conversations​ during their shared experience. Murph also shares insights into the power of flow states and why human intelligence remains our greatest asset in a world increasingly dominated by artificial intelligence.    Murph is a philosophical adventurer and seasoned coach with a mission to regenerate our approach to community, learning, and personal growth through nature and adventure. With deep roots in outdoor pursuits and wilderness survival, Martin designs and leads bespoke adventure-based learning experiences that enhance wellbeing, resilience, and team performance. Drawing inspiration from philosophers like Aristotle, Martin offers Wild Coaching and Wisdom Walks, integrating ancient wisdom with modern strategies for personal and professional development. These immersive "walkshops" guide leaders and teams into the wild to unlock creativity, strengthen bonds, and foster a regenerative mindset. With a background in military training, environmental science, and outdoor leadership, Martin’s life has been shaped by a deep connection to the outdoors. From early Himalayan explorations to jungle survival training, Martin now channels this wealth of experience into empowering others to harness the transformative power of adventure for mental health and wellbeing.   Connect with Murph: Through LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinmurphy-coach/    Through his website https://martinmurphy.coach/ And on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stoicPILGRIMCOACH/   Resources Mentioned: Episode 42, Metamorphosis, with John Shinnick McKinsey Study on Flow States – Research showing executives in flow states are five times more effective​. Ian McGilchrist – Referenced for his work on the asymmetry of the brain Wayfinding by Michael Bond – Discussed in relation to how over-reliance on GPS is diminishing our natural navigational abilities and intelligence. The book explores the psychology of being lost and how it parallels problem-solving in the workplace​. Forest Bathing (Shinrin-Yoku, Japan) – Mentioned in relation to how walking in nature, particularly around trees, increases oxygen intake and contributes to mental well-being​ Stoicism – Murph discusses Stoicism as a philosophy that influenced his approach to resilience, mindset, and coaching. His Instagram handle, Stoic Pilgrim, reflects this blend of Stoic thought and the continuous journey of learning and self-improvement​.

"You can hear the silence emerging in the room. You can hear the sound of silence. There's a peace that comes with, a harmony that comes from it. It offers an opportunity for more sharing, more cooperation, less competition. So it's very generative." Carissa Bub   Carissa Bub and I explore the transformative power of silence in leadership and life. We dive into the paradox of silence - how it can feel awkward or even frightening, yet hold the potential for profound connection and insight. We discuss how cultivating stillness can unlock deeper awareness, relational intelligence, and a new level of courageous leadership. By tapping into stillness, leaders can listen more deeply, respond with empathy, and foster psychological safety within teams. Carissa shares her journey of embracing silence as a resource, not just as a practice but as a way of being that enhances presence, influence and authentic leadership. We also discuss the role of reflective practices, playfulness, and trusting in life’s unfolding mystery.   Carissa Bub is a Leadership and Systems Coach on a mission to re-humanise organisations. With one foot firmly in the business world and the other gently planted in the earth, she enables leaders and teams to navigate complex change with dignity and agency. For 25 years, she's partnered with C-suite leaders to build stronger connections - from the boardroom to the marketplace - bringing strength and heart to strategic dialogue. As a seasoned facilitator now trained in nature-based practices, she invites her clients to take off their shoes, both physically and metaphorically, deepening their trust in life and empowering them to use their gifts for the benefit of all life. What sets Carissa apart is her unique blend of systemic coaching expertise and her background as a BBC journalist turned media trainer. She creates spaces where authentic communication catalyses real change, helping leaders develop both their inner presence and outer voice to shape lasting impact. As faculty at CRRGlobal and Six Team Conditions, she helps coaches and consultants develop their practice in systemic transformation. A TEDx speaker, Carissa challenges organisations to think differently about leadership and change, cultivating environments where people and performance naturally thrive.   Connect with Carissa: Through her website: www.carissabub.com On LinkedIn    Resources Mentioned: Conclave – an example of silence and uncertainty in leadership moments. Atomic Habits by James Clear  The Sound of Silence by Simon & Garfunkel  Marcel Marceau – influenced Carissa’s fascination with silence Brother David Steindl-Rast – for his work on gratefulness and trust in life. Eckhart Tolle – someone who embodies playfulness and presence. Brahma Kumaris (BKs) – their practice of “Just a Minute” silence. London Writers’ Salon – silent writing sessions. Center for Awakening – Monday silence gatherings. On Being with Krista Tippett – Yo-Yo Ma’s discussion on the space between musical notes. Unlimited Futures - Episode 193 Life Beyond the Numbers