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Love At First Try
Jim Zarkadas
6 episodes
3 days ago
A SaaS product design podcast for non-designers. The Love At First Try Podcast explores how SaaS products become unforgettable. We unpack the idea of taste in product and brand design, deconstruct what makes beautiful products beautiful, and show how to merge growth with delight. If you’re a SaaS founder, CEO, or developer building products people love, this is for you.
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Entrepreneurship
Arts,
Business,
Design
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All content for Love At First Try is the property of Jim Zarkadas and is served directly from their servers with no modification, redirects, or rehosting. The podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by Podjoint in any way.
A SaaS product design podcast for non-designers. The Love At First Try Podcast explores how SaaS products become unforgettable. We unpack the idea of taste in product and brand design, deconstruct what makes beautiful products beautiful, and show how to merge growth with delight. If you’re a SaaS founder, CEO, or developer building products people love, this is for you.
Show more...
Entrepreneurship
Arts,
Business,
Design
Episodes (6/6)
Love At First Try
06: Your perspective is your product. Standing out in a crowded B2B market with Alex James

Copywriters obsess over words. Alex James? He obsesses over belief shifts—and that’s why his clients win.

In this episode I sat down with Alex James, a messaging strategist who helps B2B service companies stand out in crowded, look-alike markets.

His moto is "Your perspective is your product”

🧠 What you’ll learn in this episode

0:00 – Why most agencies and service firms all sound the same

02:11 – How competition creates the need for sharper positioning

03:57 – Why inspirational agency slogans fail (and what to say instead)

06:42 – Alex’s definition of taste and why it’s a strategic advantage

11:20 – How Alex developed his signature visual style (and why it works)

15:35 – How environment shapes your creative taste

18:43 – The competitive advantage of beauty in design & words

21:44 – Your perspective is your product (explained with real SaaS examples)

26:14 – How HubSpot used a perspective to win a market

29:27 – How to find your own perspective without sounding like a sales pitch

32:02 – The 3 types of perspective: mindset, method, tactic

36:45 – When to use each perspective depending on audience warmth

47:54 – Why selling services is harder than selling SaaS

55:33 – How to make believable promises without over-promising

59:26 – Why writing visually is so hard (and how to fix it)

1:02:15 – How Alex actually works with clients (and why his process changed)

1:14:24 – Why great collaborations need “escalating commitments”

1:15:33 – Alex’s surprising answer to: What’s your favorite SaaS?

💡 Steal these quick wins

  1. Swap “what we do” for “what you’ll be able to do because of us.”

Most service pages talk about deliverables.

Clients buy outcomes.

This shift makes your message instantly more compelling and easier to visualize.

Why it works: It reframes your value around client impact — not your internal process.

1. Use metaphors to make abstract ideas visual.

If they can picture it, they’ll understand it.

If they can’t picture it, they’ll scroll.

Why it works: Metaphors turn invisible ideas (like “strategy” or “messaging”) into images the brain can actually hold onto.

2. Anchor your promise to something you can control.

“10x revenue” is not in your control.

“Make your SaaS more attractive and easier to understand” is.

Why it works: Believable promises build trust. Unbelievable ones trigger doubt — even if your work is great.

3. Identify your acquisition differentiator (not your retention differentiator).


Clients say they love you because you’re reliable.

But they chose you for a different reason. That’s your message.

Why it works: Retention features keep clients. Attraction features win them.

4. Document your perspective pyramid (mindset → method → tactic).

Mindset = great for content.

Method = great for your homepage.

Tactic = great for cold audiences.

Why it works: You’ll stop guessing what to say. Every channel gets the perspective it can actually convert with.

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1 month ago
1 hour 23 minutes

Love At First Try
05: Taste, branding and designing non-average products in a noisy AI world (w/ Meylin)

Your SaaS design might be functional, loved by customers… and still too shy to stand out. That was Wise before their rebrand.

In this episode I’m talking with product designer Meylin Bayryamali, who’s worked on global products at Wise and now Cash App.

We dig into how she thinks about taste, why she started DJing to escape the Figma bubble, and how that led into one of the most interesting fintech rebrands of the last decade. We also talk about design process, research that actually ships, and how her team uses AI in a way that raises the quality bar instead of lowering it.

If you’re a SaaS founder or someone leading product in a “serious” space (fintech, ops, B2B), this one will give you a very practical way to think about taste, branding and AI without the hype.

🧠 What you’ll learn:

00:45 – Meylin’s story from agency life to Wise and Cash App
02:57 – What “taste” means to her and why average is the real enemy
04:40 – How DJing and music unlocked better product taste than staring at Figm
08:20 – Inside Wise’s rebrand and the moment customers loved the product but not the look
10:25 – Why tone of voice and culture mattered more than just new visuals
12:14 – Working with an external agency without losing in-house ownership
16:52 – The origin story of Wise’s tapestry visuals and the “lost art” of banknotes
21:12 – Balancing growth and delight when time is always the constraint
24:26 – How projects are scoped and shipped without rigid sprints
27:32 – Wise’s approach to research: when to talk to customers vs when to measure
33:06 – Why LinkedIn is a terrible place for design advice and how to avoid bad taste
36:16 – Very practical ways Cash App uses AI to speed up quality work
38:36 – Using AI imagery to sell an idea internally and get branding support
41:35 – Why Bump is her current favorite product and what it says about committing to a strong style
42:47 – Closing the loop on taste: good, bad, but never in the middle

💡 Steal these quick wins:

1/ Use “good or bad, but never average” as a design filter.

Before you ship a flow or a page, ask: *does this have any point of view or could it belong to any competitor?*

Why it’s worth it: this one question forces you to add at least one bold decision — in layout, copy, or visuals — that makes your product memorable.

2/ Stop looking at SaaS to design more SaaS.

Build a habit around non-digital inputs: art, photography, music, architecture, film. Treat it as part of your design work, not a hobby.

Why it’s worth it: you stop recycling the same rounded cards + gradients as everyone else and start importing ideas from places your competitors don’t look.

3/ Pick research methods to match the project, not the playbook.

For big direction changes (like a new home screen), talk to customers directly and roll out gradually instead of over-optimizing surveys. For mature flows, use more quantitative research to tweak.

Why it’s worth it: you save time on “performative research” and only dig deep where the upside is huge.

4/ Use AI to kill boring ops, not your taste.

Start with one workflow where your team wastes time (like sorting bug reports or drafting visual directions), and use AI to speed that up — while humans still decide what “good” looks like.

Why it’s worth it: you free up hours that can go into craft, details, and better decisions instead of ticket admin.

5/ Prototype vibes, not just flows.

For ideas that need a strong identity, generate one or two AI images that capture the feeling you’re after before the brand team is even involved.

Why it’s worth it: “seeing is believing” — visual vibes get stakeholders excited and pull branding partners in faster than decks and documents.

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1 month ago
43 minutes

Love At First Try
04: Stop guessing, start listening — building customer-led growth in SaaS (w/ Georgiana Laudi)

Has your SaaS growth stalled? It’s not your funnel. It’s who you’re listening to (and who you’re not).

In this week’s episode, I sat down with Georgiana Laudi, co-founder of Forget The Funnel and author of Customer-Led Growth.

She’s one of the few people in SaaS who’s been shaping how founders think about marketing long before “PLG” became a buzzword. Her frameworks have guided hundreds of SaaS teams to connect the dots between customer insight, positioning, and growth — without the fluff.

🧠 What you’ll learn:

00:00: Why SaaS founders still overcomplicate growth
02:00: Georgiana’s journey from marketer to customer-led growth advocate
06:00: The real reason teams keep guessing instead of researching
10:30: AI, layoffs, and why marketers are more reactive than ever
16:50: The story of a social media SaaS that targeted the wrong audience
20:40: How to know *who* to listen to and filter bad feedback
28:00: Why old research data can quietly kill your growth
33:00: The UserVoice case: when your customer changes but your messaging doesn’t
37:10: Customer-led growth in plain English
40:20: Three steps to make it real inside your company
45:00: Building recurring systems to stay close to your customers
53:00: The SaaS wake-up call: why “good enough” products won’t survive
58:00: Mindset shifts founders must make to keep growing

💡 Steal these quick wins:

1/ Talk to 10 recent customers — not all your users

Focus on *recency + retention*. These people reflect today’s market reality, not last year’s. You’ll uncover what’s actually driving purchases *right now* and which problems are still worth solving.

2/ Record and review your last 5 sales calls

Stop guessing your messaging. Your customers have already told you what matters — how they describe pain, what made them choose you, and which results they value. Listening back reveals the exact words that should be in your copy.

3/ Filter customer feedback — don’t treat all of it as gold.

Most teams get trapped by the “vocal minority.” Learn to distinguish *who to listen to*: the ones with high retention, strong usage, and willingness to pay. This prevents you from building for noise instead of value.

4/ Run a weekly 1-hour onboarding audit.

Onboarding decay is silent but deadly. Products drift as features change, and first-time experiences quietly break. A weekly walkthrough keeps everyone close to the real user journey — faster activation, fewer cancellations.

5/ Turn customer research into a system, not a side project.

Insight compounds like product debt. Formalize it: recurring interviews, Slack summaries, quarterly synthesis. The teams that operationalize customer understanding outpace those who only do it “when growth slows.”


Keywords: SaaS, marketing, customer-centric, product development, customer feedback, growth strategies, user experience, marketing research, customer signals, product onboarding

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1 month ago
1 hour 1 minute

Love At First Try
03: Iterating fast, shipping smart & what Buffer learned from building in public (w/ Amanda Marochko)

What can SaaS founders learn from how Buffer builds, tests, and ships product ideas?
In this episode with Amanda Marochko, Staff Product Manager at Buffer (and ex-Shopify), we dive deep into how small, thoughtful teams can build great products faster—without burning out or losing quality.

Here’s what you’ll learn:

- How Buffer shifted from enterprise-style pricing to a simpler, usage-based model—and why it made them more profitable.
- What “iteration is key” really means in practice (and why you should stop over-polishing V1s).
- How to build in public, gather feedback early, and turn your users into collaborators.
- Why some features deserve to be “slow and polished,” while others should be “fast and scrappy.”
- How Buffer uses habits, streaks, and small wins to keep users engaged.

Steal these quick wins 💡

- Ship small, polished versions early—then improve them through feedback, not guesswork.
- Add a simple beta label to manage expectations and learn faster.
- Build a group of power users (Discord, Slack, or even Facebook) to test new features before launch.
- Make customer research part of your weekly routine, not a one-off project.
- Celebrate small releases publicly—momentum builds trust.

Chapters

00:00 Reconnecting and Career Paths

03:26 Buffer's Strategic Shift: From Enterprise to PLG

06:26 Transforming Pricing Strategies at Buffer

09:29 Navigating Pricing Changes: Insights and Experiences

12:26 The Power of Free Plans in SaaS

15:16 Building Habits: The Role of Gamification

18:16 Iterative Development: Learning from Feedback

21:25 Building in Public: Trust and Community Engagement

24:21 Balancing MVPs and Core Functionality

27:20 The Importance of User Experience in Product Development

33:46 Understanding User Experience Through Feedback

35:14 Continuous User Research Practices

38:11 Engaging with Customers for Insights

42:19 The Importance of Customer Empathy

46:59 Balancing Fast and Slow Product Development

57:32 The Role of Transparency in Product Management

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2 months ago
1 hour 7 minutes

Love At First Try
02: Including users in design reviews & how delight works in a cleaning biz (w/ Stephanie Pipkin)

Ever wondered what “great design” looks like in a cleaning business?
This conversation with Stephanie Pipkin, founder of Serene Clean, shows how design thinking can transform any industry — even one as hands-on as cleaning.

We dive into how she built a $1.4 million cleaning business that runs remotely, and how she uses taste, empathy, and intentional design to create delight for both customers and employees.

Here’s what you’ll learn:

  • How working with customers during design sprints can 10× your product decisions.
  • What “taste” really means in business — and why it’s about intentionality, not aesthetics.
  • How to turn ordinary customer experiences into delightful ones (yes, even with mops and checklists).
  • Why delighting your team is as important as delighting your customers.
  • The one SaaS onboarding process that completely changed how Stephanie runs her own company.

Steal these quick wins 💡 

  • Invite a real customer into your next design or strategy session — you’ll get clarity and speed you can’t find in a survey.
  • Focus on show, don’t tell: let your brand’s actions and details speak louder than words.
  • Add one small “unexpected moment” for your users — a thank-you note, a scent, or a tiny surprise that makes them smile. 

Remember: delight doesn’t require budget, just thoughtfulness.


Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Serene Clean and ZenMaid 
03:40 The Retreat Experience and Collaboration

06:17 Designing with Customer Feedback

09:22 The SOS Feature Development

12:21 Insights from Design Calls

15:22 The Impact of Design on Business

18:31 Understanding Product Development and Customer Needs

21:17 The Role of Taste in Business Branding

33:38 Show, Don't Tell: The Essence of Branding

37:18 Understanding the Customer: Empathy in Business

40:41 Delighting Customers: The Unexpected Touches

49:38 The UX of Employees: Internal Customer Experience

55:35 Favorite Tools: The Role of SaaS in Business

01:05:28 Personal Touch: How Small Details Matter

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3 months ago
1 hour 10 minutes

Love At First Try
01: How to use voice of customer & AI role playing write copy that converts (with Chris Silvestri)

In this episode Jim Zarkadas and Chris Silvestri delve into the intersection of copywriting and design, exploring how taste, authenticity, and user experience shape effective communication. They discuss the importance of understanding the voice of the customer and how to leverage it in copywriting, as well as the role of AI in enhancing the creative process. The conversation emphasizes the need for a unique perspective in copy and the practical steps to gather and utilize customer insights for better messaging. In this conversation, Chris Silvestri and Jim Zarkadas delve into the importance of customer feedback in product positioning, the innovative use of synthetic research in B2B contexts, and common pitfalls in SaaS copywriting. They explore practical applications of synthetic research, emphasizing its potential to enhance user experience and marketing strategies. The discussion also highlights the significance of aligning messaging across teams to foster growth and effectively communicate value propositions to target audiences.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background
02:28 Taste in Copywriting
08:35 Defining Taste in Copywriting
09:47 Authenticity in Copywriting
15:34 Voice of Customer (VOC) Research
41:05 Synthetic Research and AI in Copywriting
50:57 Common Mistakes in SaaS Copywriting
01:00:39 Favorite SaaS Tools and Recommendations

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3 months ago
1 hour 15 minutes

Love At First Try
A SaaS product design podcast for non-designers. The Love At First Try Podcast explores how SaaS products become unforgettable. We unpack the idea of taste in product and brand design, deconstruct what makes beautiful products beautiful, and show how to merge growth with delight. If you’re a SaaS founder, CEO, or developer building products people love, this is for you.