In this episode, Ryan and Henry welcome Paul Depmore for an in-depth discussion tracing his path from the U.S. Marine Corps into commercial and national-level calibration work. Paul shares how his experience evolved through Southwest Research Institute, Transcat, Morehouse, and Applied Technical Services, leading to later support of U.S. Navy calibration programs. Key discussion points include: Transitioning from military to civilian metrology roles Early mentorship and lab culture Piston-gauge and dead-weight tester practices Differences between ASTM E4 / E74 and ISO 376 / 7500 calibrations Managing primary-pressure standards and effective-area verification Collaboration among commercial labs, NIST, and Navy facilities Communication, documentation, and supporting new technicians 🎧 Explore how decades of experience—from force frames to primary-pressure systems—connect across the military, commercial, and standards communities. Timestamps 00:00 – Introductions and background 05:00 – Marine Corps calibration and mentorship 20:00 – Pressure-metrology discussion 35:00 – Force calibration: ASTM E74 vs ISO 376 50:00 – Primary standards and uncertainty chains 01:00 – Industry collaboration and continual learning

Jane Weitzel has been working in analytical chemistry for over 40 years for pharmaceutical and mining companies.  She was elected to the United States Pharmacopeia Council of Experts as chair of the 2020-2025 General Chapters–Measurement and Data Quality Expert Committee and is a member of the 2025-2030 EC Pharmaceutical Analysis Lifecycle and Data Science. She was a member of the USP 2015-2020 Statistics Expert Committee. She has been Director of pharmaceutical Quality Control laboratories. She has experience with many different regulatory environments.   She is currently a consultant specializing in laboratory management systems, GMP testing, and ISO/IEC 17025. She is an auditor and an educator. Jane has applied Quality Systems and statistical techniques, including the evaluation and use of measurement uncertainty, in a wide variety of technical and scientific businesses. Recently she is focusing on the implementation of the new USP General Chapter 1220 Analytical Procedures Life Cycle. 

In this episode of Metrology Today Podcast, we sit down with Ryan “The Assessor” Kelly - a Marine Corps trained metrologist, seasoned assessor, and detail-driven industry professional. Ryan shares his journey from military calibration labs to private industry and assessment work, and explains why his no-nonsense approach to auditing is both feared and respected. We discuss: The transition from military calibration training to civilian labs The challenges of incomplete training and rigid procedures Why some labs pass years of audits with “no findings” until someone like Ryan digs deeper Common nonconformities - from firmware documentation to risk in PT plans (per ILAC P9 updates) The tension between customer demands, simplified certificates, and full compliance How real uncertainty budgets should be built (and why “marketing” low numbers is dangerous) If you want to hear what it’s really like to have a tough assessor in your lab - and why that’s ultimately a good thing, this episode is for you.

On this episode of Metrology Today, we go global with Sandeep Nair, founder and CEO of Metquay, whose software is helping commercial calibration labs around the world break out of the Excel rut. Sandeep’s story is unlike any other: He started as a computer scientist in India, found his way into calibration by chance, and wound up building a platform that empowers labs to create their own uncertainty calculations, templates, and workflows—no “black box” required. Sandeep shares: His journey from services in India to running a tech company for metrology labs across Asia, Australia, the Middle East, and the U.S. Why most labs are still stuck in spreadsheets—and what it takes to break free How true software customization is changing the calibration business model The importance of data sharing, open APIs, and industry collaboration (and why holding your data too tightly might actually be a red flag!) How AI and modern software can help labs with quality, documentation, and even workforce training in a rapidly changing industry His vision for Metquay’s unified measurement platform and what’s coming next If you care about the intersection of technology, quality, and business—or just want a fresh perspective on the calibration world—this conversation will get you thinking. Listen now and connect with Sandeep on LinkedIn or at metquay.com.

On this episode of Metrology Today, we’re joined by Greg Cenker—industry veteran, educator, and now a driving force at IndySoft—for a deep dive into the business and technical realities of running a calibration lab. Greg shares his path from the Marine Corps to aerospace, power, Fluke, SpaceX, and beyond, illustrating just how small (and interconnected) the metrology world really is. We discuss: How buying the wrong equipment can quietly cost millions—and how to actually model those costs The reality of probability of false reject/false accept, and why most labs underestimate their true risk Justifying equipment and software investments to management (with real ROI examples) The limitations and frustrations of industry standards and why committees move so slowly Cross-checks, continuous improvement, and what every lab manager should know What’s coming next from IndySoft, including force and balance modules and smarter calibration workflows Greg’s upcoming article and free cost modeling spreadsheet in Quality Magazine: https://www.qualitymag.com/articles/98705-how-much-does-that-calibration-test-really-cost Whether you’re a bench tech, a lab manager, or just metrology-curious, this episode will open your eyes to what’s really at stake in calibration—and how small decisions add up to big dollars. Listen now, and let us know: Can you think of a single product that isn’t affected by measurement?

Rob Knake is a professional specializing in quality systems, metrology, and standards development. He is actively employed with the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) and involved with NCSL International, where he contributes to training, technical exchanges, and the advancement of measurement science. With expertise in ISO/IEC 17025, measurement traceability, and laboratory accreditation, Rob frequently leads seminars and workshops aimed at enhancing metrology practices. His roles encompass coaching, public speaking, and organizational leadership, focusing on improving quality systems and fostering collaboration within the metrology community. Rob's professional endeavors are highlighted through his active participation in events like the NCSL International Technical Exchange and the MSC Annual Training Symposium. His contributions have been recognized in various capacities, including hosting sessions and delivering presentations on metrology and digitalization topics. For more detailed information about Rob Knake's professional background and contributions, you can visit his LinkedIn profile.

Galen Liao is department manager of Engineering Asset Management for Northrop Grumman Corporation, a leader in global security.    Experience: Galen leads the company’s Engineering Asset Management (EAM) organization which supports program execution through the reuse of company resources via the test equipment pool and by providing top of the line calibrations.  EAM is recognized as an industry leader and runs the largest calibration laboratory in the company, arguably the largest cal lab west of the Mississippi, and is the 3rd largest general purpose electronic rental pool agency.  EAM leads and manages the NGC metrology & equipment rental organizations by providing an affordable comprehensive solution for managing the measurement and test equipment life cycle.    Experience: After earning his bachelor’s degree in chemical engineering from the University of California at Berkeley (Go Bears!) Galen joined Northrop Grumman in 2003 as a Test Engineer for the Experimental Test Facility, He then went on to work Airborne Laser Test bed project and was responsible for managing the operation of the high energy laser.  In 2010, he joined the Metrology Services organization as a Physical Dimensional Discipline Engineer.     Prior to NG, Galen has notably worked on testing a novel drug delivery system at Johnson and Johnson (Pharmaceuticals), finding and mapping oil well levels at Breitburn Energy(Oil and Gas), setting up computer networks at the California Science Center (IT), and developing next gen shuttle tile at NASA (Aerospace).     Education:  Bachelor’s degree in Chemical Engineering from the University of California at Berkeley and half-way through a masters in Management Science and Engineering at Stanford University    Background:  Born and raised on the hard streets of Torrance, CA. Galen was a latchkey kid and has gone to public school all his life.  His premier achievements include skipping kindergarten and setting the CAMS (California Academy of Math and Science) waterpolo team record (8) steals for a single game.  In the BC (Before Child) era he enjoyed running marathons, surfing, snow boarding, and dragon boat racing.  Now he spends his weekends coaching his son’s AYSO soccer team, teaching him how to swim, or cheering him on in his local YMCA basketball league.  Galen has completed several leadership-development programs and volunteer organizations, serving as an officer for Connect1NG, Space Dragons Dragon Boat team, and is currently the President and on the Board of Directors for the Measurement Science Conference.

Patrick Jester is the visionary behind Blackthorn Consulting Group, Inc. in Baton Rouge, LA, where he delivers transformative quality management system and training solutions that convert knowledge into measurable success. As a Lead Assessor for ISO/IEC 17025 Calibration Laboratories and an ASQ Certified Quality Auditor, Patrick plays a pivotal role helping companies reach their strategic objectives. His leadership credentials include previously serving as Vice President of Quality & Corporate Compliance for a large, multiple location calibration laboratory, and as a Divisional NCSLI Vice President and contributing to various NCSLI Committees.  Patrick is the current NCSLI Board of Directors Secretary and ASQ Measurement Quality Division Chair.

Join Henry and Ryan as they reminisce back on the fantastic guests of Season 3. 

Join us in this episode as we sit down with Georgia Harris, a seasoned expert with over 30 years of experience in U.S. Weights and Measures. Georgia’s career includes 5 years with the State of Minnesota and an impressive 28 years at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), where she made significant contributions before her recent retirement. In our conversation, Georgia shares insights from her extensive career, including her pivotal role in evaluating and accrediting State weights and measures laboratories and her work ensuring accurate measurements for over 350,000 calibrations each year. She also discusses her involvement in training and proficiency testing for State metrologists and the development of key documentary standards for Weights and Measures field enforcement and laboratory activities. Georgia has not only presented and published widely across the U.S. but also on the global stage, including Canada, Mexico, South Africa, and Colombia. Her accolades include multiple best paper awards and notable honors such as the MSC Andrew J. Woodington Award, the NCSLI Education and Training Award, and the ASQ Measurement Quality Division Max J. Unis Award. She also served as a liaison to the Measurement Science Conference and held a long tenure on the NCSLI Board of Directors, including a term as President. Tune in to hear about her journey, her insights into the field of metrology, and her experiences from a distinguished career dedicated to advancing measurement science.

On today's episode we have Tony Hamilton, here is a little more information on Tony: Tony Hamilton has more than 20 years of experience in the metrology field. He received his technical training in the U.S. Navy as a nuclear qualified electronics technician. During his six-year stint, he served four years on the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69), qualifying as a reactor operator, shutdown reactor operator, and reactor technician. After leaving the Navy in 1997, Tony worked as a nuclear instrument technician at the Surry Power Station in Virginia. In the summer of 2000, he accepted a position as a process instrument technician for Eli Lilly and Company. With a strong background in physics and math, Tony was asked to assist in the Company’s primary calibration laboratory during a restructuring, which began in the summer of 2002. This position became permanent by the end of that year. In 2006, he became the primary metrologist over pressure and vacuum measurement systems, and in 2008 he was promoted to the position of engineer. Tony has calibration experience in many types of water chemistry, electromagnetics – dc/low frequency, mechanical, and thermodynamic measurements. As a metrologist, he was also responsible for the validation, work instruction, maintenance, and training. Tony has more than 16 years of experience using the Guide to the Expression of Uncertainty (GUM) in the development of complex uncertainty budgets. As of June 2021, Tony accepted a quality engineer role as the quality assurance representative for the Company’s primary calibration lab, which has been accredited by the ISO/IEC 17025 since 2008. In addition to his accomplishments at Lilly, Tony is a Senior Member of the American Society for Quality (ASQ) since 2010, as well as a member of its Measurement Quality Division. He is qualified as an ASQ Certified Calibration Technician and Certified Quality Auditor and is a contributing author to the ASQ Metrology Handbook, 3rd Edition, as well as the 5th Edition of the NCSLI RP - 6, Recommended Practice for Calibration Quality Systems for the Healthcare Industries (2022). Tony earned his Bachelor of Science in business management from Indiana Wesleyan University in 2005. Tony was accepted and trained as a calibration assessor in 2018, becoming a lead assessor the following year. He is qualified to assess calibration facilities to the ISO/IEC 17025:2017, ANSI/NCSL Z540-1-1994 (R2002), and ANSI/NCSL Z540.3-2006 (R2013), as well as ISO 15195 and its dependent standards, ISO 15193, 15194, 17511, and 18153.

In this episode we have the pleasure of interviewing Cees Veth, a high pressure expert from the Netherlands! Now when we say Cees works with high pressure we mean it... he owns a deadweight standard that produces ~1625 MPa, or 235686.3 PSI!   In the episode we mention the Measure Magazine article featuring Cees. Unfortunately that article is no longer public, but we will update the description if we have a link to share it.

The 2024 NCSL International Conference is coming up July 6th through 11th. Mike Schwartz from Cal Lab Magazine and Cal Lab Solutions joins us to chat about some of the activities, tutorials, and more!   Main page for the conference: https://ncsli.org/mpage/ws_2024

This is a special episode for our General Metrology course coming soon, but also for the release of a fantastic new guidance document on Decision Rules written by Henry Zumbrun, Greg Cenker, and Dilip Shah! Download the document here: https://mhforce.com/decision-rule-guidance-book-download/ We are not doing a bio at the beginning of this episode because we have done another episode with each of them. Please check out those episodes here for their individual bios: Dilip Shah: https://metrologytoday.podbean.com/e/s2-e5-dilip-shah/ Greg Cenker: https://metrologytoday.podbean.com/e/industry-risk-concerns-panel-discussion-part-1/ Henry Zumbrun: https://metrologytoday.podbean.com/e/dont-wing-it/  

Heather A. Wade, ASQ-CCT, ASQ-CQA is a recognized metrology subject matter expert & internationally sought presenter. She excels at presenting useful and easy-to-implement practices. She is Editor of ASQ's Metrology Handbook, 3rd Edition. She is ASQ Measurement Quality Division's Immediate Past Chair. A graduate of University of Michigan with a B.S. in Biology, Heather has worked as a microbiologist, filter test specialist, laboratory compliance officer, extraction chemist, and analytical chemist before moving full-time into metrology. She brings all her nearly 30 years of professional experience together to provide “Pain Relief for Measurement Headaches” for her consulting clients. Find her on LinkedIn or at www.HeatherWadeGroup.com 

Walter Nowocin is the Life Sciences Product Manager for IndySoft Corporation. Walter works with development, marketing, and sales to ensure that IndySoft is optimized to support calibration quality systems in regulated industries while being compliant with FDA, GMP, and ISO requirements. Walter has over 40 years of calibration experience with Medtronic, the world’s largest medical device manufacturer, as a Calibration Department Senior Engineering Manager and with the United States Marine Corps as a Precision Measurement Equipment Laboratory Master Sergeant. Walter is Co-Chair of the NCSL International Healthcare Metrology Committee and is the Coordinator of the NCSLI Minnesota Section. Walter is the recipient of the 2023 NCSLI Education and Training Award and is a Co-Author of the Third Edition of the ASQ Metrology Handbook. Walter has a Masters in Engineering Management degree from St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, Minnesota and is a Fellow of the American Society of Engineering Management (ASEM). https://www.linkedin.com/in/walter-nowocin-mem-asem-fellow-b7334217/.

The 2024 Measurement Science Conference is coming up this month March 25th - 28th at the Disneyland Hotel, Anaheim CA. You can find more information at: https://annualconf.msc-conf.com/ Full Schedule: https://annualconf.msc-conf.com/full-event-schedule/ Register: https://web.cvent.com/event/9115288a-69d0-4245-91f4-327953be745c/regProcessStep1 Hotel Information: https://annualconf.msc-conf.com/hotel/

In this episode of the Metrology Today Podcast we have Charles Ellis and Howard Zion on the show to discuss the National Association for Proficiency Testing (NAPT) and proficiency testing in calibration. Charles Ellis: Mr. Ellis has over forty years of technical experience in the administration & maintenance of test equipment. Mr. Ellis is a former U.S. Army officer serving first as a calibration technician, and then as an electronic support platoon leader. After serving in the Army, he became a calibration supervisor for a captive third-party calibration laboratory. For eight years, Mr. Ellis managed calibrations services for various external clients, corporate facilities and 28 district offices for this Midwest testing firm. Mr. Ellis has had formal auditor training to and for ISO 9000, ISO 17025, ISO 13528 and ISO 17043 standards. He has performed numerous assessments to ISO 17025 for several accreditation bodies in the located in US. Mr. Ellis currently serves on several technical committees related to the test & measurement community. In his last position, he was responsible for the development, growth, and operations, of a non-profit association that provides administration & technical support to the test & measurement community in the area of interlaboratory comparisons / proficiency tests. Mr. Ellis is largely responsible for NAPT becoming the largest metrology proficiency testing provider in North American. As Mr. Ellis is retired, he still provides technical advice to the National Association for Proficiency Testing when needed. Mr. Ellis has degrees in Electronic Technology and Business. Honors & Awards Besides Numerous Honors for Military Service. Mr. Ells is a recipient of the Andrew J. Woodington Award for Professionalism in Metrology - Issued by Measurement Science Conference   Howard Zion: Howard Zion is the Sr. Director of Service Application Engineering for Transcat, Inc. He holds a B.S. in Engineering Technology and a M.S. in Industrial Engineering & Management Systems from the University of Central Florida. Mr. Zion is the recipient of the Andrew J. Woodington Award for Professionalism in Metrology presented at the 2019 Measurement Science Conference at the Disneyland Hotel in Anaheim, CA. Howard has collected a wealth of knowledge in many disciplines during the span of 41 years in Metrology, and has been employed with: -The United States Air Force (Strategic Air Command - PMEL) -Lockheed Martin (Electronics and Missile Systems – Calibration Labs) -NASA-Kennedy Space Center (Standards & Calibration Laboratories) -Philips Electronics (Broadband Networks – Metrology/Test Engineering) -Transcat, Inc. (Corporate Resource) Mr. Zion performs additional duties in various communities and is serving or has previously served in the following roles: -Vice-Chairman of the Board of Directors at the National Association for Proficiency Testing (NAPT) -Four NCSLI Working Groups: o 151 Healthcare o 163.1 Metrology Descriptions o 164.1 Education o 171 Cal System Resources -Measurement Science Conference (MSC) Woodington Award Committee -Advisory board at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte (UNCC) -Sponsor for Engineering Capstone projects at the Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT) -Author of white papers on measurement uncertainty and business processes related to Metrology You may contact Howard at howard.zion@transcat.com or howard@proficiency.org You may contact Chuck at ellis@proficiency.org Transcat sells and markets test and measurement instrumentation as well as trusted Metrology services (including accredited calibration, accredited reference standards services, repair, managed services, 3D Metrology, Validation services, Consulting services, and Client-Based Laboratories) to a variety of industries including medical device manufacturers, pharmaceutical, biotech engineering, petroleum refining, chemical manufacturing, and public utility. Transcat celebrates its

Paul graduated from the University of Central Florida in 1993 with a Bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering.He spent 18 years as a Metrologist working in the Primary Standards Laboratory at NASA's Kennedy Space Center.In 2012, he left the aerospace world and joined the pharmaceutical industry where he currently manages the Standards & Calibration Laboratory at Abbvie in North Chicago.He has published numerous papers on Measurement Decision Risk and contributed to the development of the ANSI Z540.3 Handbook and the ISO 17025 Handbook.

Paul graduated from the University of Central Florida in 1993 with a Bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering.He spent 18 years as a Metrologist working in the Primary Standards Laboratory at NASA's Kennedy Space Center.In 2012, he left the aerospace world and joined the pharmaceutical industry where he currently manages the Standards & Calibration Laboratory at Abbvie in North Chicago.He has published numerous papers on Measurement Decision Risk and contributed to the development of the ANSI Z540.3 Handbook and the ISO 17025 Handbook.