Things heat up fast in Chapters 22 and 23 of Fourth Wing, and in this episode of Minds Over Magic, Katya and Katheryn are here to unpack every messy, fascinating moment. Violet finally starts channelling — but instead of raw power, she’s hit with overwhelming emotion, dragon desire, and a kiss that raises some very real questions about consent.
From grounding and shielding to jealousy, loyalty, and the brutal fight with Jack Barlowe, this episode explores how power, attraction, and agency collide. Is stopping the kiss actually the healthiest moment in the book so far? And how much of this chaos is Violet’s… and how much belongs to the dragons?
Blame the Dragons!
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In Episode 14 of Minds Over Magic, Katya and Katheryn explore Chapters 20 and 21 of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros (spoilers for Chapters 1 - 21), diving deep into the psychological fallout of Amber’s execution and meeting a new favourite character. As Violet navigates fear, control, and moral rigidity, we examine how rule-bound thinking, entitlement to others’ inner worlds, and the misuse of authority can shape — and distort — human behaviour.
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In this episode of Minds Over Magic, Katya and Katheryn explore Chapters 18–19 of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros (spoilers for Chapters 1–19) through a psychological lens.
They unpack themes of self-efficacy, belief, and self-worth, examining how confidence is built — or undermined — in high-pressure environments. The discussion touches on trust and vulnerability in relationships, the emotional cost of keeping secrets, and the hidden power of support, both human and dragon. A deep dive into survival, resilience, and knowing your worth.
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Join Katya and Katheryn as they dive into Chapter 17 of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros (spoilers for Chapters 1 - 17), unpacking themes of social recalibration, shifting power dynamics, and emotional clarity after Threshing. They explore how the characters adjust to their new roles and relationships, and how sudden changes in status impact identity, behaviour, and group loyalty.
The discussion looks closely at leadership and the intense loyalty surrounding Xaden and the Marked Ones, raising questions about devotion, survival, and the fine line between trust and something that feels almost cult-like. Katya and Katheryn also break down Violet and Dain’s dynamic, examining what real love requires, why emotional courage matters, and how our expectations of love shape the choices we make.
This episode blends psychology, character analysis, and the complicated ways power and vulnerability influence relationships at Basgiath.
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xx
Violet Sorrengail defies every expectation at Basgiath.
Join Katya and Katheryn as they dive into Chapters 15 and 16 of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros (spoilers for Chapters 1-16), where one impossible bond becomes two, the rules shatter, and the entire quadrant scrambles to understand what Violet has become.
We unpack the psychology of self-belief, the weight of sudden responsibility, mother–daughter tension, and the shifting dynamics between Violet, Dain, and Xaden.
It’s courage, fear, power… and the moment Violet breaks the system.
Threshing Day in Basgiath.
Join Katya and Katheryn as they dive into Chapters 13 and 14 of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros (spoilers for Chapters 1 - 14), where dragons descend, bonds are forged, and the bullies show their true colours.
We unpack the psychology of bullies and the fears that drive them, Violet’s instinct-led choices, and her unforgettable first encounter with a very big, very grumpy dragon.
It’s survival, power, fear… and the moment everything changes for Violet Sorrengail.
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xx
Join us as we dive into Chapter 12 of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros (spoilers for Chapters 1–12), where Presentation Day brings tension, anxiety, and unexpected dragon encounters. We unpack squad dynamics, coping styles, and that mysterious golden feathertail. A quieter chapter, but full of psychology, drama… and fire.
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We would love to hear from you.
xx
“When the right way isn’t the only way — Violet finds her own path, and her own strength.”
Violet’s back at the Gauntlet — bruised, determined, and out of time. In Chapter 11 of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros, she faces her biggest challenge yet, and this time, she’s done doubting. With a rope, a dagger, and a Scribe’s knack for loopholes, Violet finally finds her own way to the top!
Join Katya and Katheryn as they explore resilience after failure, the calm that follows a hard decision, and the power of belonging when your found family cheers you on. Plus, a few words about Amber Mavis (Dain 2.0), a quiet moment from Xaden that might mean more than it seems, and our favourite segment - Who needs Therapy?!.
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Violet’s sharpening her strategy — and her daggers. In this episode, Katya & Katheryn dive into Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros Chapters 8 and 9 (spoilers for Chapters 1 - 9), where survival takes brains, not brawn. From fonilee berry sabotage to dragon lectures and dagger-throwing drama, Violet proves she’s clever enough to outthink her opponents… and maybe even outgrow the people holding her back.
Join us as we unpack Dain’s rule-bound anxiety, Xaden’s mysterious mentorship, and the psychology behind control, courage, and self-acceptance. Plus: who really believes in Violet, and what kind of therapy could possibly help Dain this week?
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Follow us on Instagram @mindsovermagic, or email us at mindsovermagicpodcast@gmail.com with your questions, comments, or romantasy recs. And please let us know what you think of Dain! Is he too much or are we being too harsh?...
We would love to hear your thoughts!
Join us as we dive into Chapter 10 of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros (spoilers for Chapters 1 - 10), where Violet faces the deadly Gauntlet — a brutal test of strength, focus, and courage. Katya and Katheryn explore the psychology of endurance, fear, and belonging as Violet learns that surviving isn’t just about muscles… it’s about mindset.
From Aurelie’s tragic fall to Xaden’s sharp-edged advice (“The right way isn’t the only way”), this episode unpacks how grief, resilience, and a little bit of squad loyalty can change everything.
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Follow us on Instagram @mindsovermagic, or email us at mindsovermagicpodcast@gmail.com with your questions, comments, or romantasy recs.
We would love to hear from you!
In this episode of Minds Over Magic, Katya and Katheryn dive into Chapters 6 and 7 of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros (spoilers for Chapters 1 - 7), diving deep into Violet Sorrengail, Xaden Riorson, and the hidden dangers of the Riders Quadrant.
Violet is mended but not defeated, determined to stay in the Riders Quadrant no matter the odds. Between Brennan’s journal, Rhiannon’s support, and her growing survival instincts, she’s finding her own way forward. But when a late-night berry hunt leads her straight into Xaden’s secret meeting, everything changes.
Join us as we unpack healing, hidden motives, and that charged encounter beneath the shadows.
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In this episode of Minds Over Magic, Katya and Katheryn dive into Chapters 4 and 5 of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros (spoilers for Chapters 1-5). From Xaden’s mysterious power plays to Dain’s revealing conversation with Violet, the tension in the Riders Quadrant keeps rising. Violet’s intellect finally earns her some recognition in class, but her victories are short-lived as the brutal reality of Basgiath sets in.
Join Katya and Katheryn as they unpack power dynamics, shifting loyalties, and a sparring match that ends with more than just bruised egos.
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In this episode of Minds Over Magic, Katya and Katheryn discuss Chapter 3 of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros. Join us as we explore Violet Sorrengail’s challenges in the Rider’s Quadrant, her friendship with Rhiannon, and the tension with Dain Aetos. This Fourth Wing podcast episode dives into themes of anxiety, belonging, and trust - all shared with humour, insight, and a deep love for Rebecca Yarros’ world.
This episodes contains spoilers for Chapters 1-3.
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In this episode, Katya and Katheryn dive into Chapter 2 of Rebecca Yarros’ Fourth Wing (with spoilers for Chapters 1-2). Violet faces one of the most dangerous challenges yet — crossing the infamous parapet. We talk about the intensity of this scene, the mix of fear and determination it stirs, and what it reveals about Violet’s character.
Our discussion explores the psychology of survival, how anxiety shows up in moments of extreme stress, and the different ways people cope when everything is on the line. We also reflect on how trauma and resilience shape the cadets at Basgiath.
We also share our favourite moments, ask who might need therapy this time, and invite you to reflect with us.
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In our very first full episode, Katya and Katheryn dive into Chapter 1 of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros. This is where we meet Violet, our unforgettable FMC, along with several other key characters who set the stage for the Riders Quadrant. Katheryn shares her fresh first impressions—seeing the story through brand-new eyes—and unpacks what it means to follow a 20-year-old heroine into a world of dragons, danger, and impossible choices.
Listen in as we explore parental pressure, sibling dynamics, grief, and more—all through the lens of fantasy and psychology.
Please don't forget to follow the show, so you never miss a new episode!
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Welcome to Minds Over Magic, the podcast where fantasy and psychology meet on the battlefield of feelings and fiction.
Hosted by two friends with very different perspectives, this show dives deep into the world of romantasy — the wildly popular genre blending romance and fantasy. Katya is a lifelong romantasy reader who brings her passion, fan insights, and love for dragons, daring, and slow burns. Katheryn is a psychologist and psychotherapist who is only just stepping into the genre for the first time, exploring its characters and tropes with fresh eyes and a professional understanding of the human mind. Together, they unpack what makes these stories so gripping, what drives the characters’ choices, and why romantasy resonates with so many readers.
For our first season, we’re journeying through Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros — chapter by chapter (spoilers for the chapters we’re covering in each episode, and possibly referencing things we talked about in earlier episodes).
Each episode offers a breakdown of the plot as it unfolds, alongside layered discussions of character psychology, relationships, and the wider themes of survival, power, and love. From high-stakes battles and impossible choices to swoony moments and morally gray decisions, we bring both fandom excitement and therapeutic insight to the table.
Expect a mix of lively banter, thoughtful analysis, and plenty of laughs as we navigate everything from dragon politics to messy love interests. Whether you’re a romantasy veteran or brand new to the genre, you’ll find a space here to reflect on why these stories matter — and maybe even learn something about yourself in the process.
Episodes are released weekly. So grab your copy of Fourth Wing, and join us as we explore the magic, the romance, and the psychology behind the pages.