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Episode 12: Madeleine Work, Senior Product Marketing Manager at Chili Piper (https://www.linkedin.com/in/madeleinework/) joins me (https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-chronister/) to break down how to create messaging that reps actually use and customers remember.
We talk about defining clear platform messaging, getting internal buy-in without watering it down, and why launches are never really one-and-done. We also dive into sales feedback loops, creative copy that still converts, and how Madeleine uses tools like Gong, Wynter, and Mutiny to test what’s working.
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💡 During our conversation, you’ll learn:
How to A/B test website messaging
How to create continuous feedback loops
Getting internal buy-in on your messaging
Balancing creativity and clarity in messaging
Why product launches are on going and why you should repeat yourself
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🎙️ In our conversation, we cover:Â
00:00 – Teaser: How Madeleine crowdsourced and tested messaging across her company
00:29 – Intro to Madeleine and what you’ll learn in the episode
01:44 – From content to product marketing: how the transition happened
03:24 – What she loved (and didn’t love) about content marketing
06:01 – The challenge of getting 100% messaging buy-in
06:55 – The collaborative H1 test: value, competitor, and persona buckets
08:53 – Running messaging through Wynter and Mutiny
12:21 – The importance of above-the-fold copy and first impressions
14:08 – UI images in messaging: show, don’t tell
15:10 – How Chili Piper defined its platform messaging
15:59 – “Demand conversion”: the phrase they landed on
17:47 – Messaging in a competitive landscape (and naming your competitors)
19:32 – How they brainstormed the phrase “demand conversion”
21:02 – Creativity vs. clarity: writing how you talk
23:44 – “No more complaints about unfair lead distribution”: voice-of-customer in action
25:18 – Marketing to marketers: easier and harder
26:13 – Why marketers don’t click UTM links—but give amazing form responses
28:46 – How Madeleine continuously refines messaging over time
29:53 – Sales feedback loops and scathing voice notes
30:23 – Refresh cadence: product pages, competitor pages, then restart
31:59 – PDF collateral vs. web content: keeping everything updated
33:35 – Launches Madeleine’s proud of (and what she learned)
35:12 – Why no one noticed the chat launch—and how they relaunched it
36:55 – The importance of repetition in product marketing
38:33 – Using Gong to track if messaging is landing with reps
40:04 – What living is all about: being a little uncomfortable
41:28 – Where to find Madeleine and her “Madeleine Love” folder
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🔦 Where to Find Emily:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/madeleinework/
🔦 Where to Find Josh:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-chronister/Â
Newsletter: https://onmessaging.substack.com/Â
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3E1gduFoKQYHiLNmNLzeF4?si=c3e2bc4bd362490fÂ
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/on-messaging/id1787098696Â
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