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Episode 13: Ryan Yackel, CMO at Databand.ai (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanyackel/) joins me (https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-chronister/) to share why product marketers make great CMOs and how narrative design can transform product launches.
We dig into how he uses storytelling to cut through complexity, why sales enablement is often more about creativity than slides, and how to keep demand gen aligned when the market shifts. Ryan also explains his approach to competitor research using AI tools like Gemini and NotebookLM, the “red box vs. green box” framework he uses with sales teams, and why he believes go-to-market execution beats having the “best” product every time.
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💡 During our conversation, you’ll learn:
Ways to use narrative design in product launches
A very compelling sales narratives
How to use AI for competitive research
How product marketing is different at a startup vs. enterprise
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🎙️ In our conversation, we cover:
00:00 – The “secret sauce” in messaging: telling a story buyers remember
00:35 – Intro to Ryan Yackel, CMO at Data Band
01:31 – Why product marketers make great CMOs
02:17 – From sales engineer to product marketing leader
03:43 – Why recruiters seek CMOs with product marketing backgrounds
06:02 – Product marketing as the headlights guiding demand gen
08:21 – Analogies that explain the role of product marketing
09:36 – Narrative design: framework for product launches
12:29 – Case study: Continuous Testing at Tricentis
13:26 – Case study: Machine identity management at KeyFactor
14:22 – Case study: Data observability at Data Band
15:30 – Bringing narrative design into IBM product launches
17:44 – Where narratives live: sales decks, messaging docs, and pitches
21:36 – Using reference points like Datadog to simplify complex products
22:07 – Building narratives for multi-product organizations
24:40 – Using AI (Gemini + NotebookLM) for competitive research
28:05 – Prompt engineering for category deep dives (Collier Rosin Kranz example)
30:12 – Framework mashups: April Dunford + corporate visions + AI research
32:27 – The “Red Box vs. Green Box” exercise for sales differentiation
36:35 – Teaching sales teams to sell stories, not features
38:17 – How messaging shifts from startup to enterprise companies
43:28 – Three tactics to win sales mindshare in large enterprises
46:52 – AMA sessions, newsletters, and internal podcasts for sales enablement
50:11 – Contrarian opinions: AI for messaging, PLG caution, GTM beats product
55:46 – Why go-to-market strategy beats having a “better” product
58:23 – Ryan’s #1 piece of messaging advice: define your secret sauce
1:00:56 – What life is all about: gratitude, faith, and perspective
1:03:38 – Where to find Ryan and his children’s book Pancakes and Mr. Bear
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🔦 Where to Find Ryan (and more links):
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanyackel/
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🔦 Where to Find Josh:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-chronister/
Newsletter: https://onmessaging.substack.com/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3E1gduFoKQYHiLNmNLzeF4?si=c3e2bc4bd362490f
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/on-messaging/id1787098696
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