Ending season six with this ep. When maths feels like it’s having an identity crisis, Allan Dougan is one of the fewvoices insisting that mathematics is still a deeply human endeavour. In this episode, the CEO of the Australian Association of Mathematics Teachers takes us from his toddler’s toy-car sorting experiments to the real-world pressures shaping maths classrooms today — teacher shortages, out-of-field teaching, and the quiet identity work teachers do when they’re suddenly expected to ‘be’maths teachers. Allan argues that the shortage isn’t an abstract policy problem, but a daily workforce crisis playing out in cancelled classes and last-minute assignments. He pushes for nationally coordinated, fully funded upskilling pathways — not one-size-fits-all — and calls for a profession where teachers are equipped, supported, and genuinely seen. Plus: why ‘best practice’ is a myth, why early childhood maths matters, and why the future depends on every young person seeing maths as something they can do.
Links:
AAMT – Australian Association of Mathematics Teachers
https://www.aamt.edu.au
ATSIMA – Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander Mathematics Alliance
https://www.atsima.com
AAMT Strength in Numbers Podcast
https://aamt.edu.au/teachers/event/strength-in-numbers/
Allan Dougan – LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/allandougan/
AAMT's Pedagogy in Mathematics Paper (2025)
https://aamt.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/AAMT-Pedagogy-in-Mathematics.pdf
AAMT & Early Childhood Australia's Position Paper: Early Years Mathematics
https://www.earlychildhoodaustralia.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/AAMT-ECA-Mathematics-Position-Paper-FINAL.pdf
In this episode, I unpack six provocations about out-of-field teaching and explore what they reveal about the way Australia handles teacher shortages, expertise, and professionalism. OOFT isn’t just a workaround — it’s a structural signal, and it deserves a real conversation. Join me as I cut through the noise and name what’s actually going on. A short, sharp deep dive for anyone who cares about teacher work and system design.
What happens when a research design collapses — and thatcollapse becomes the method? This episode explores methodological rewilding: a way of working with disruption, boundary-work and emergence. We look at how ethics protocols, teacher shortages, online communities and policy frameworks became unexpected catalysts for a more ecological, adaptive research design.
Dr Jared Carpendale from Massey University unpacks how Content Representations (CoRe) support out-of-field teachers of physics, and other areas of science. We talkabout the origins of CoRe, how it works in practice, and why collaborative design with in-field colleagues transforms confidence, content knowledge, and classroom strategies.
Links:
Dr Jared Carpendal, Massey University profile
https://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/expertise/profile.cfm?stref=450622
Link to his research outputs
https://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/expertise/profile.cfm?stref=450622
Foundational paper about CoRe: Loughran, J., Mulhall, P., & Berry, A. (2004). In search of pedagogical content knowledge in science: Developing ways of articulating and documenting professional practice. Journal of Research in Science Teaching, 41(4),370–391. https://doi.org/10.1002/tea.20007
Dr Seamus Delaney from Deakin University leads one of the world’s largest surveys of chemistry teachers — 10,000 educators across 57 countries — revealing what really happens in science classrooms. In this conversation, he shares how out-of-field chemistry teachers navigate confidence gaps, why so much chemistry takes place at the sub-atomic level, and how “green” and “sustainable” chemistry are reshaping curricula worldwide. We talk about the 12 principles of green chemistry), and what reforms could help teachers feel better equipped to teach complex, unseen worlds.
Links:
https://experts.deakin.edu.au/43520-seamus-delaney
Green Chemistry Teaching and Learning Community
https://gctlc.org/seamus-delaney
Fizzics Education podcast with Dr Delaney
https://www.fizzicseducation.com.au/podcast/fizzicsed/podcast-chemistry-education-with-dr-seamus-delaney/Elements of Sustainable Chemistry research hub
https://eschemistry.org/about/
IUPAC Committee of Chemistry Education Project (survey page – also with practical activities shared by teachers across the world)
What happens when teachers are asked to step outside their expertise? Dr. Therese Huston — cognitive scientist, faculty consultant, and author of Teaching What You Don’t Know — shares strategies, stories, and surprising benefits ofout-of-field teaching, but she’s using a post-secondary education lens. Plenty of transferable tips, plus a 2-minute decompression activity you can do on the quiet to help recharge and overcome overwhelm. From tackling fear and impostor syndrome to finding big ideas and building supportive communities, Huston reveals how teachers can not only cope but thrive in the unknown.
Links:
Huston, T. (2009). Teaching What You Don’t Know. Harvard University Press
https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674066175
Therese Huston LinkedIn profile
https://www.linkedin.com/in/therese-huston/
Her latest book: SHARP: 14 Simple Ways to Improve Your Lifewith Brain Science
https://www.theresehuston.com/sharp
Vietnamese article mentioned in the ep:
UAE article mentioned in the ep:
This episode steps back to see out-of-field teaching as part of a bigger picture. We look at the World Summit on Teachers in Santiago and its outcome, the Santiago Consensus. We hear UNESCO’s stark projections of a 50 million teacher shortfall by 2030. We consider Australia’s data gaps, stories from Tajikistan, and candid teacher voices on Reddit. Together these threads show how teachers are being stretched beyond their training — and why that mattersfor policy and identity. I also share a powerful idea I heard recently about the balance of know-how and show-how. And we preview the upcoming UNESCO-OOFTAS Conference.
Out-of-Field Teaching Across Specialisations (OOFTAS) international symposium 2025 website
https://ooftas-collective.org/2025-symposium
Session recordings should be available now if not soon
UNESCO-OOFTAS Conference 18 October 2025
This episode explores how the Independent Education Union of Australia is tackling out-of-field teaching as both a professional and workload issue. Assistant Federal Secretary Veronica Yewdall shares how shortages are forcing teachers to step outside their subject or age-group expertise—sometimes with surprising consequences, like one teacherpassing her school ‘stimetabling person in the corridor saying ‘Bonjour, ca va’, then being asked to teach French. The discussion covers the toll on teacher wellbeing, the need for mentoring and ongoing support, and how compliance reforms are cutting through red tape. With insights from across Catholic and independent schools, the union highlights what’s driving the problem—and what needs to change to keep teachers in the profession.
Links:
Independent Education Union
https://www.ieu.org.au/
Australian Teachers' Performance and Development Framework
https://www.aitsl.edu.au/tools-resources/resource/australian-teacher-performance-and-development-framework
Shifting the balance: Increasing the focus on teaching andlearning by reducing the burden ofcompliance and administrationReview to reduce red tape for teachersand school leaders [2020]
https://www.aitsl.edu.au/docs/default-source/red-tape/review-to-reduce-red-tape-for-teachers-and-school-leaders.pdf?sfvrsn=7cb3d93c%7B%5C_%7D2
International Symposium 2025 (7–8 Sep, AEST — online & free).
Want the freshest research on out-of-field teaching? This episode previews the 12th International OOFTAS Symposium—an online, free, global gathering by the Out-of-Field Teaching Across Specialisations collective. Expect 22 short, sharp talks across 11 countries: identity, effective PD, OOF in STEAM/home ec/arts/CS, tech trials, and cross-system insights. Find out what to watch, how to join, and where to catch recordings.
Links:
OOFTAS symposium 2025 program
What can bush regeneration teach us about out-of-field teaching? In this episode, we explore how so-called “weeds”can be ecosystem transformers—reshaping landscapes in surprising ways. Drawing on Australian example weeds like lantana and African lovegrass, wI connect the dots between ecology and education, challenging assumptions about growth, adaptation, and success in unexpected environments.
Scholarly Citations
Akkerman, S. F., & Bakker, A. (2011). Boundary Crossing and Boundary Objects. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.3102/0034654311404435
Barker, M., Goos, M. & Coupland, M. (2024). Relieving Out of Field Teaching in Australian Secondary Mathematics: Analysis of out-of-field secondary mathematics teaching upskilling initiatives in Australia. AMSI, AustMS, MERGA, Statistical Society of Australia, Actuaries Institute. https://amsi.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/maths-ooft-report.pdf
Blake, D. (2013) Applied learning as a boundary-crossing pedagogy. https://mail.aare.net.au/publications/aare-conference-papers/show/8090/applied-learning-as-a-boundary-crossing-pedagogy-to-support-innovative-youth-education
Hobbs, L. & Porsche, R. (Eds.) (2022). Out-of-field Teaching Across Teaching Disciplines and Contexts. Springer. https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9783030944771
Otrel-Cass, K. (2024) — https://educationaltechnologyjournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s41239-024-00463-4
Other links:
AABR: Bradley Method — https://www.aabr.org.au/learn/what-i-bush-regeneration/general-principles/the-bradley-method/
Gillies, C. & Compton, M. (2025) “Rewilding the University” — https://mcompton.uk/2025/04/02/rewilding/
Kuchta, E. C. (2025). Growing Grass Between Concrete — https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/australian-journal-of-environmental-education/article/growing-grass-between-concrete-a-chooseyourownadventure-game-for-rewilding-literature-pedagogies/6E278EB4A3B723ADFECC09BF23E208B0
Vicphysics SPP PD — https://www.vicphysics.org/events/spp/
Wikipedia: Bush regeneration — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_regeneration
What happens when out-of-field teachers feel more confident about their performance than their in-field peersdo about them? Professor Donna Pendergast AM from Griffith University in Queensland, Australia, joins us to unpack the surprising findings of her global study on home economics teaching. From the emotional toll on in-field mentors to the "Swiss cheese" gaps in system support, this episode explores what self-efficacy really means, and why passion still matters.
Links:Study cited: Pendergast, D., McManus, S., DuPlessis, A., & Deagon, J. (2025). Investigatingthe perceptions of self-efficacy of in-field and out-of-field home economics teachers. Family and Consumer Sciences Research Journal, 53, e70006. https://doi.org/10.1111/fcsr.70006
Griffith University profile: https://experts.griffith.edu.au/18640-donna-pendergast-am
National Teacher Workforce Action Plan 2022:https://www.education.gov.au/national-teacher-workforce-action-plan
What happens when no one signs up for your carefully planned research study? In this solo episode, I reflect on the challenges of involving out-of-field teachers in time-intensive research and why that struggle pushed me to rethink traditional data collection methods. I share how netnography and existing online conversations are reshaping my PhD project — and what this means for research ethics. It’s a call to listen differently, especially when participation feels like one ask too many.
Links:
Find out more about my PhD project if you’reconsidering participating in an interview: https://blogs.deakin.edu.au/success-stories-ooft-maths-science/phd-research-project-a-netnographic-exploration-of-self-perceptions-of-success-of-out-of-field-teachers-of-mathematics-and-science/
REFERENCES:
Briggs, C. (1986/1992), Learning How to Ask: A Sociolinguistic Appraisal of the Role of the Interview in Social Science Research, Cambridge University Press, New York.
Clandinin, D. J. (2006). Narrative inquiry: A methodology for studying lived experience. Research Studies in Music Education, 27(1), 44–54. https://doi.org/10.1177/1321103X060270010301
Ellis, C. (2007). Telling secrets, revealing lives: Relational ethics in research with intimate others. Qualitative Inquiry, 13(1), 3–29. https://doi.org/10.1177/1077800406294947
Kozinets, R. V. (2020). Netnography: The essential guide to qualitative social media research. SAGE.
Nissenbaum, H. (2010).Privacy in context: Technology, policy, and the integrity of social life.Stanford University Press.
O'Toole, J. & Beckett, D. (2013). Educational research: Creative thinking and doing (2nd ed.). Oxford University Press.
Paulhus, D. L. (2002). Socially desirable responding: The evolution of a construct. In H. I. Braun, D. N. Jackson, & D. E. Wiley (Eds.), The role of constructs in psychological and educational measurement (pp. 49–69). Lawrence Erlbaum Associates. https://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~dpaulhus/research/CIRCUMPLEX/ETS%20chapter.pdf
Powney, J. & Watts, M. (2018). Interviewing in educational research. Routledge.
Rubio, O. G. (1997). Ethnographic interview methods in researching language and education. In N. H. Hornberger & D. Corson (Eds.), Encyclopedia of language and education (Vol.8, pp. 153–163). Springer. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-94-011-4535-0_15
What builds real confidence for teachers suddenly teaching maths out of field? Dr Janelle Hill and Georgie Stuart from Charles Sturt University break down the impact of a free, credit-bearing micro-credential designed for secondaryteachers tackling maths without formal training. They share how practical strategies, peer support, and flexible course design are helping teachers feel more capable in the classroom - especially in regional and rural communities.Plus, why AI isn't the quick fix some think it is.
Links:
DrJanelle Hill, Charles Sturt University
https://arts-ed.csu.edu.au/schools/education/staff/profiles/teaching-and-research-staff/janelle-hill
What happens when a research project doesn’t go to plan? In this short episode, I share how my PhD project onout-of-field teaching is evolving. Hear how teacher time pressures, public Reddit threads, and ethical netnography are shaping a new, triangulated approach to understanding teacher success. This is the last episode for season5 of the pod. Season 6 starts on Tuesday, 22 July 2025.
Links:
Association of Netnographic Research
What do Victorian parents really think about out-of-field teaching? In this episode, Parents Victoria CEO Gail McHardyshares insights from years of advocacy on behalf of public school families. We explore how teacher qualifications, continuity, and communication shape trust in schools - and why relationships are everything. Gail also unpacks the limitsof school councils, the rising visibility of workforce issues, and how parents can advocate constructively at both local and systemic levels.
Links:
Victorian Parliament Inquiry into the State Education System (2023–2024): https://new.parliament.vic.gov.au/get-involved/inquiries/inquiry-into-the-capacity-of-the-victorian-school-system-to-deliver-a-quality-education-to-all-students/
Parents Victoria: https://www.parentsvictoria.asn.au/
Victorian Institute of Teaching (VIT): https://www.vit.vic.edu.au/
Victorian Registration and Qualifications Authority (VRQA): https://www.vrqa.vic.gov.au/
Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority (VCAA): https://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/
Out-of-field teaching doesn’t happen in a vacuum - and Professor Jillian Blackmore makes that crystal clear in this far-reaching, provocative conversation. A Distinguished Professor of Education at Deakin University and a long-time critic of education reform, Jill unpacks the systemic and political shifts that have weakened public education, casualised the teacher workforce, and deepenedinequality in Australian schools.
From neoliberalism and human capital theory to the failures of school autonomy and flawed teacher recruitment practices, Jill explains why out-of-field teaching is just one symptom of a system under strain. We also explore her new research on how race, class, and gender shape access to the profession and why ‘best fit’ hiring may be a proxy for exclusion.
Whether you're a teacher, policymaker, or researcher, this episode will challenge your assumptions and prompt deeper questions about what must change to truly support all educators.
Links:
https://experts.deakin.edu.au/154-jill-blackmore
Australian Education Research Organisation (AERO)
https://www.edresearch.edu.au
Professor Linda Hobbs et al. – Research on Hard-to-Staff Schools (Deakin)https://www.deakin.edu.au/education/research/research-groups/education-policy-and-practice/research-projects/attracting-and-retaining-teachers-in-hard-to-staff-schools
Education International – Status of Teachers Reports
https://www.ei-ie.org/en/detail/15557/status-of-teachers-2021-global-report
OECD – Teachers and School Leaders
https://www.oecd.org/education/school/teachers-school-leaders.htm
In this bonus episode, I share details about my PhD research into how out-of-field high school teachers in NSW define and experience success when teaching maths or science. If you've ever taught outside your subject area, I’d love you to be part of this study. I explain what’s involved, how your input will be used, and why your story really matters.Links:
To find out more about the research project – including the plain language statement and consent form, visit
I've also posted a story about this project on my Medium.com profile. You can read it here:
What happens when you’re asked to teach a language you don’t speak—let alone teach? In this episode, I quiz Dr Christine Biebricher from the University of Auckland, whose research digs deep into the experience of New Zealand primary teachers tasked with teaching Mandarin out of field. We chat about courage, classroom strategies, professional identity, and why some teachers thrive while others struggle. If you’ve ever found yourself Googling “how to say hello inMandarin” five minutes before class (guilty), this one’s for you.
Links:
https://profiles.auckland.ac.nz/c-biebricher
Biebricher, C. (2023). Out-of-field Mandarin teaching and its effects on teacher identity developments – Experiences of Aotearoa New Zealand primary school teachers. Teaching and Teacher Education, 132, 104241. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.tate.2023.104241
Biebricher, C. (2023). Creating a sustainable Mandarin language programme in an Aotearoa New Zealand primary school – complexities and achievements. In D. Wang & M. East (Eds.), Chinese language education in Anglophonecountries: Perspectives from New Zealand (pp.149-162). Springer. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-031-35475-5_10 -this book chapter also reports on teaching Mandarin OOF, but looks at the success story of the school
Biebricher, C., East, M., Howard, J., & Tolosa, C. (2019). Navigating intercultural language teaching in New Zealand classrooms. Cambridge Journal of Education. https://doi.org/10.1080/0305764X.2019.1581137 -This article looks at teaching Mandarin, but with a slightly different focus, i.e. intercultural language learning and struggles of implementing that into teaching/stereotypes, etc.
Katelyn Mclaren, a public high school maths teacher based in far western NSW shares her inspiring journey from teaching Kindergarten to retraining in high school maths. She shares her passion and some of the challenges in teaching number and algebra, her strategies for connecting abstractmathematical concepts to real-world applications, and the importance of focusing on understanding rather than procedures. She explains how ‘slow maths’ happens in her classroom, when she’s learning at the same time as her students.
Links:
Graphing calculators
Desmos https://www.desmos.com/
Geogebra https://www.geogebra.org/
Online platforms https://www.khanacademy.org/math
Edrolo https://edrolo.com.au/
Other maths resources:
NSW (Australia) Mathematics Hub – Number and Algebra
https://www.mathematicshub.edu.au/search/nsw-det-guide-number-and-algebra/
NSW (Australia) Mathematics resources for Years 7–10:
What happens when the niggle to return to teaching meets the hard reality of classroom life? In this episode, I reflect on a short-lived (fly on the wall) return to secondary maths teaching, my ongoing microcredential journey, and the challenge of learning to “speak maths” as an out-of-field teacher. From false starts to fresh insights, I share what I’m learning about access strategies, differentiation, and what (out-of-field teaching) success might really look like when you're not yet fluent—but still showing up.