What's it like to work along the borderlands of the US-Mexico border as a public lands steward? Ranger Red joins us to talk about his experiences as a GIS specialist and physical scientist and has worked for the National Park Service and Bureau of Land Management. From car chases to jaguars, Red's got some interesting stories to share! We also discuss Senator Mike Lee's newest act against public lands called the "Borderlands Conservation Act" and why it is just another unnecessary attack on Wilderness and fragile ecosystems.
Read about Senator Mike Lee's proposal: Borderlands Conservation Act
See the full text here: Energy.Senate.Gov
Read the SF Gate article: 'Shameless': Utah senator revives crusade against public lands
*In the episode Liz mistakingly said Outside Magazine instead of SF Gate*
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This bonus episode is inspired by Sandra Ramos, our guest and known fondly as the National Park Patch Lady. Sandra is the wizard behind the curtain with "Adopt-a-Ranger" mutual aid initiative, which aims to support rangers who need some joy in these hard times. We also get to know Sandra and hear about her undying love for National Parks and the rangers who care for them.
If you are a ranger (former, current, furloughed, excepted, etc.), whether you're from the US Forest Service, National Park Service, US Fish & Wildlife Service, Bureau of Land Management, or other relevant agency, we encourage you to sign up with the link below! Once you sign up, Sandra will pair you up with one of the hundreds of kind individuals who signed up to send a care package to a ranger.
If you are not a ranger but wish to support one as a caring member of the community, sign up to "Adopt-a-Ranger" with the link below! More details will be sent afterwards with all that you need to know next.
*This is considered mutual aid and does not violate any ethics laws. No one's personal information will be available for anyone to see publicly.*
Rangers: Sign up HERE to receive a care package from a caring community member.
"Adopt-a-Ranger": Sign up HERE to send a care package to a ranger.
Follow Sandra on Instagram: @nationalparkpatchlady
See original "Adopt-a-Ranger" post here: Instagram
Donate to Association of National Park Rangers: ANPR
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This week we talked with New Mexico Wild's Conservation Director, Bjorn Fredrickson about the importance of wilderness protections and some of the legislation that aims to strip these protections. Specifically, the Border Lands Conservation Act introduced by Senator Mike Lee of Utah poses a lot of concerns for conservationists, and people who enjoy and use public lands.
Interested in learning more about New Mexico Wild? You can find their website at nmwild.org and on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube!
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Sources:
The magic of foraging for mushrooms, berries, medicinal plants and so much more is not just a hobby for Gabrielle Cerberville, but a lifestyle. In this episode we discuss the rights of nature, protecting public lands, foraging ideologies, and a fun round of Ranger Ranking questions.
Gabrielle, also known as "Chaotic Forager" on social media, just wrote and published her first book Gathered: On Foraging, Feasting and the Seasonal Life, which she describes as a "guide to fielding" as opposed to a field guide. She wants to help people become comfortable with foraging and to learn more about why it is so good for us!
Gabrielle's book can be found wherever books are sold and is out now! Go give it a read!
Visit Gabrielle's website: gabriellecerberville.com
Follow Gabrielle on Instagram: @chaoticforager
Follow Gabrielle on TikTok: @chaoticforager
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Bats, caves & rescues, oh my! Ranger Hannah Croxton immerses us in some spooky stories from their time as a US Forest Service Lead Ranger at the Newberry National Volcanic Monument in Oregon.
Alongside all the other amazing federal workers who protect our public lands, Hannah has experienced the tumultuous uncertainty that plagues the federal workforce this year. She shares what she is doing now, what she's been through as a federal worker in 2025, and how much she loves being a ranger.
Please support our federal workers by sharing this episode and Hannah's story with others. We encourage you to stand up for our public lands and the rangers who work so hard to serve them.
Follow Hannah on Instagram: @hannahcroxton.
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Author and former Wildland Firefighter River Selby (they/them) wrote and published their memoire Hotshot: A Life on Fire on August 12, 2025. In this episode, River talks about what it was like being a hotshot and wildland firefighter from both a personal and scientific perspective. In Hotshot, readers are taken on a journey through sweltering wildfire action, awareness regarding fire ecology and culture, and River's personal experiences -- which will have you on the edge of your seat!
You can find Hotshot: A Life on Fire anywhere you can buy books. River and ROTLP recommend supporting independent bookstores as a first resort. Audiobook version is available on any audiobook platform as well.
Visit River's Website to learn more: RiverSelby.com.
Follow River on Instagram: @riverselby.
Subscribe to River's Substack: Gathering.
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SJ Joslin (they/them), a bat biologist from Yosemite National Park, was unjustly fired from their dream job by the federal government for flying the trans flag in the park. They were off-duty, left no trace (aka zero damage) and did this purely with good intentions. This was not a demonstration, despite what the Department of Interior stated, but an act of inclusion depicting that trans people belong outdoors, too.
We speak with SJ about what happened on May 20 when they flew the flag and what happened in August when they were consequentially fired for it. SJ also shares about their passions, education, and belief in the Constitution and the right to express Freedom of Speech. We also have some fun and share some silly stories together because, at the end of the day, we want to be joyful despite the adversity thrown our way.
Follow SJ on Instagram: @shannonekj
-DM them for emails of the superintendents and NPS in charge of their firings to tell them to reinstate SJ immediately.
Donate to SJ's GoFundMe to help with legal fees: GoFundMe
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Have you ever wondered what it takes to support 640 million acres of public lands across the United States? In this episode, Gaby Rojas from Public Lands Alliance explains how nonprofits support our nation's treasures for the future.
Find Public Lands Alliance at publiclandsalliance.org.
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Join us this week for reviews from National Parks, Monuments, Forests, and more! Liz explains the difference between each type and then dives into the reviews. We hope this silly episode can bring joy to a chaotic week! Thank you to our friends at National Park After Dark for the episode idea.
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The Department of Interior proposed to rescind the Public Lands Rule, also known as the Conservation and Landscape Health Rule, on September 10, 2025. This rule codifies conservation as a "legitimate use" of public lands, and in this week's episode Mikayla and Liz explore different uses and their impacts on conservation. Do you think conservation, or "no use", is a legitimate use of our public lands?
Sources Cited in this episode:
1. Conservation and Landscape Health Rule
2. Federal Register
3. Overview of Public Lands Rule
4. Proposed Rescission
5. Resistance Rangers Instagram Post: Instagram vs. Reality
6. BLM About Livestock Grazing
7. BLM Livestock Grazing Overview
8. 7 Ways Oil and Gas Drilling are Bad for the Environment
9. Renewable Energy Article
10. National Recreation and Park Association
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Joining us this week is Alex, or Al, Troutman. His passion for fish and wildlife biology, writing and communicating really shines through. As a co-organizer for many Black in X weeks including Black Birders Week and Black Mammalogists Week, Al seeks to increase diversity in nature, celebrate Black individuals and scientists, and awareness of Black nature enthusiasts and diversity in STEM fields. You can support Alex's enthusiasm for nature and Wildlife Forever by checking out his books featuring critters from different states! To connect with Al, follow him on instagram and be sure to visit his website for more information.
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The Roadless Rule in Alaska has been controversial and succumbed to many changes throughout the last couple of decades. Joining us today is someone who not only lives in Alaska, but has also been fighting for protecting Roadless Areas for years.
Yolanda Fulmer is a Tlingít Matriarch of The Raven Nest House from Glacier Bay, Alaska. She has been a tireless advocate for Indigenous rights, forest protection, and climate justice for over 3 decades. As a representative of Women for Forests and the Tongass Women’s Earth and Climate Action Network (WECAN International), Yolanda has rallied for the protection of the Tongass National Forest and the codification of the Roadless Rule to ensure the survival of ecosystems, cultures, and food sovereignty in Southeast Alaska. Grounded in her ancestral traditions, Yolanda works to amplify Indigenous women’s voices in environmental policy, ensuring that future generations inherit a thriving, just, and sustainable world.
Tlingít & Haida's mission is to: "Preserve our sovereignty, enhance our economic and cultural resources, and promote self-sufficiency and self-governance for our citizens. In 1935, the Central Council of the Tlingít and Haida Indian Tribes of Alaska was established to pursue a land suit on behalf of the Tlingít and Haida people. We evolved out of our people’s struggle to retain our way of life, strongly based on subsistence. Today, we are one of the two federally recognized regional tribes in Alaska. The Tlingít and Haida people are brought together by common interests in protecting, preserving and advocating for the rights of our people, including our rights to claim lands we have used from time immemorial, lands we were given no claim to under the Western concept of land ownership." (Source: Official Tlingít & Haida Website)
To learn more about the Roadless Rule, listen to our previous recording of Episode 5: The Roadless Rule (Apple Podcasts & Spotify).
Follow WECAN International on Instagram: @wecan_intl
Learn more about Yolanda & Women For Forests - Tongass Forest, Alaska here: WECAN Website
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Wildfires are burning more and more drastically each year. The people who serve and protect the landscape and its inhabitants are not only brave but also incredibly vital to have in the workforce.
Speaking with us today is Riva Duncan, who retired at the end of 2020 after 32+ years with the US Forest Service, first as a forester then a wildland firefighter and manager. Shortly after retirement, Riva joined Grassroots Wildland Firefighters advocacy non-profit. She also joined the US Forest Service's International Programs as an emergency management specialist assisting national parks in North Macedonia and the Republic of Georgia and teaching wildland firefighting skills virtually to first responders and military personnel in Ukraine.
Riva shares a crazy story about a bear encounter while fighting fire, Mikayla talks about the time she almost lost her house to a wildfire, and Liz discusses a time she called in a fire she stumbled upon!
Follow Riva Duncan on Instagram: @firechik
Visit Riva's website: RivaDuncan.com
Follow Grassroots Wildland Firefighters on Instagram: @grassrootswildlandfirefighters
Learn more about Grassroots Wildland Firefighters: GrassrootsWildlandFirefighters.com
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On July 24 of this year, US Department of Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins announced a new reorganization effort for the entire USDA, which includes the US Forest Service. By ridding the US Forest Service of all current Regions and, therefore, Regional Offices, things are a bit up in the air about what this will actually look like. Liz takes us into a deep dive of what the USDA reorganization looks like, specifically for the US Forest Service, how this may impact the agency and the American people as a whole, and why it might not be a very good idea.
Sources Cited in this episode:
1. USDA Reorganization Announcement
2. Secretary Memorandum SM 1078-015
3. About the US Forest Service - usda.gov
4. About the US Forest Service - supremecourt.gov
5. USFS Organization
6. USFS Regional Foresters
7. Region 5 - About the Area
8. Field Organization and Administrative History of the National Forest System - forestservicemuseum.org
9. The USDA Forest Service - The First Century
10. Forest Service Regions
11. The Land We Cared For . . . A History of the Forest Service's Eastern Region
12. 8KPAX - Missoula & Western Montana Article
13. Montana Free Press Article
14. Mountain Journal Article
15. The Guardian Article
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Bogs and Badgers, oh my! Joining us for this episode is Liz's sister, Sarah Crandall, who is a botanist and wildland firefighter. We discuss her work caring for rare and sensitive plant species and share funny stories about bogs, badgers, Harry Potter camp, favorite nonessential things to bring backpacking, and more! This is our silliest episode yet, so we hope you enjoy as much as we did.
Follow Sarah on Instagram: @riv.er.fern
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Have you seen the phrase "Make America Beautiful Again" and thought to yourself, "What does that even mean?" Well you're in luck because this week Mikayla explains the two Executive Orders, Making America Beautiful Again by Improving Our National Parks and Establishing the President's Make America Beautiful Again Commission while Liz helps fact-check the fact sheet. The impacts of these directives are also discussed, so get comfy and tune in to learn all about MABA.
Feeling overwhelmed by all the terrible news? Negative news coverage impacts mental health, click here to learn more about how your brain processes this information and what you can do to reduce negative impacts. Enjoy some time in nature and embrace taking a break to rest. If you feel empowered to make change, get involved with a group such as Resistance Rangers and search for volunteer opportunities near you. We will get through this together!
Additional resources used for this episode:
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Joining us for this episode is Park Ranger Alex Wild! A ranger of 15 years and going, Alex dedicates his life and purpose to protecting the parks, the people, and the landscape.
Learn about what it means to be a ranger, why you should care about National Parks and public lands, and hear some hilarious first-hand ranger stories. Lounging marmots, bears with critical thinking skills, celebrity run-ins, and more!
Follow Alex Wild on Instagram: @ranger_wild.
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What is the Roadless Rule? Why is it important? What does it really mean for the American people and the US Forest Service?
Liz takes a deep dive into the Roadless Rule and its controversial history while Mikayla hangs out and eats a cookie.
In short, the 2001 Roadless Rule has quite the reputation within the United States federal government, US states, Indigenous Tribes, and the every day Forest visitor. 58.5 million acres of Inventoried Roadless Areas are established throughout the United States on National Forest Systems Land and, recently, US Department of Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins announced the desire and motivation to rescind the Roadless Rule. What does this entail? Why should you care? Let's talk about it.
All resources for this episode are listed below in the order stated in this episode:
1. USFS Roadless Information
6. Congress.gov Roadless Rule Definition
7. EarthJustice Roadless Rule Timeline
8. USFS Alaska Roadless Rule Public Comments
9. National Institutes of Health 2024 Scientific Study
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Joining Liz and Mikayla is Wildlife Biologist Ben Vizzachero, who discuss their crazy experiences at the State of the Union (Joint Address) in Washington DC on March 4, 2025, which they attended in-person as the honored guests of specific members of Congress.
Ben (or Benji) shares his passion and love for his work as a biologist for the US Forest Service, including how he got into his field of work and how he continues to fight for his job. He also provides some really fun and interesting facts about several wildlife species, including birds and crabs.
Like Mikayla and Liz, Ben was illegally fired by the Trump administration in February, and has stood up for not only himself but all federal workers who do important deeds to protect our public lands. He even stood up directly to Elon Musk, in person, and to find out what all was said, you'll have to tune in and listen to this special episode!
All views expressed in this episode are our own individual opinions, and do not reflect the views or perspectives of the US Forest Service or any other federal agency workers.
Check out Ben's Instagram: @territory_ranger
Indivisible SYV: @indivisiblesyv
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Liz & Mikayla welcome President of the NFFE Executive Board Warner (Andy) Vanderheuel and NFFE General Counsel and Labor Lawyer Yvette Piacsek to a special episode highlighting federal worker legality issues, concerns, and current events. Also discussed is how current federal workers (including rangers within public land federal agencies) can safely and effectively use their voices to highlight their personal perspectives and information they wish to share publicly.
The National Federation of Federal Employees (NFFE) union has a long history of supporting working-class federal employees and their families. They have been integral for current federal workers experiencing hardship instilled by the current administration.
For insight and guidance regarding how rangers and federal employees can carefully elevate their voices, skip ahead to 31:00.
To learn more about NFFE, visit their website at www.nffe.org.
Follow NFFE on Instagram @nffe_union.
To learn more about the Forest Service Council, visit their website at www.nffe-fsc.org.
Follow NFFE-FSC on Instagram @nffe_fsc.
Other Resources Mentioned:
Rise up: Federal Workers Legal Defense Network
AFL-CIO
Office of Government Ethics
Workforce Reshaping Operations Handbook
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