What happens when you stop chasing romantic love entirely? After ending a catastrophic relationship, acclaimed author Melissa Febos took an unexpected step: despite being a serial relationshipper, she decided to take a personal vow of celibacy. What began as a three-month break became a full year that transformed how she understood desire, boundaries, people-pleasing, and love itself. In her latest book The Dry Season: A Memoir of Pleasure in a Year Without Sex, Febos reflects on addiction-like romance, the freedom of solitude, feminist role models across history, and how abstaining from sex helped her reclaim agency to build healthier, more generous relationships. She joins us to talk about it in this episode.  Full transcript is available here at relationscapes.org.  Show Notes Annie Dillard, “Living Like Weasels” Audre Lorde, "The Uses of the Erotic: The Erotic as Power" Radiolab, "Choice," November 17, 2008; Barry Schwartz, The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less Top ten Roadrunner cartoons as curated by some guy on YouTube for his nieces What Your Therapist Thinks podcast  About the Guest Melissa Febos is the author of five books, including the national bestselling essay collection, Girlhood, winner of the National Book Critics Circle Award in Criticism. Her craft book, Body Work (2022), was also a national bestseller Her new memoir, The Dry Season, was published by Alfred. A. Knopf in June 2025. The recipient of fellowships and awards from the Guggenheim Foundation Fellowship, the National Endowment for the Arts, the British Library, MacDowell, the Bogliasco Foundation, the Black Mountain Institute, LAMBDA Literary, the American Library in Paris, and others, Melissa's work has appeared in publications like The Paris Review, The New Yorker, The Best American Essays, The New York Times Magazine, The Guardian, Elle, and Vogue. She holds an MFA from Sarah Lawrence College and is the Roy J. Carver Professor at the University of Iowa, where she teaches in the Nonfiction Writing Program. She lives in Iowa City with her wife, the poet Donika Kelly. From melissafebos.com.

We grow up swimming in gender stereotypes: men are from Mars, women are from Venus. Men are rational and women are emotional. The binary cliches are everywhere, but are they true? Daphna Joel is a neuroscientist who wanted to know what the science actually says. When she looked at real brains she discovered that each person carries a unique mix of traits, a true mosaic that defies the old binary. Daphna Joel joins us to talk about her groundbreaking book Gender Mosaic: Beyond the Myth of the Male and Female Brain. Full transcript is available here at relationscapes.org.  About the Guest Daphna Joel, PhD, is author of Gender Mosaic: Beyond the Myth of the Male and Female Brain. She is a professor of psychology and neuroscience at Tel Aviv University. She has combined her expertise as a neuroscientist with her interest in gender studies to revolutionize the field of sex, brain and gender.

The Bible remains one of the world's most influential books, impacting  believers and non-believers alike. As Christian nationalists gain more power over American politics right now, it's as important as ever to understand how the Bible is used to justify laws about abortion, gay marriage, child abuse, and more. Luckily, Bible scholar Dan McClellan is here to give us the data. He's become wildly famous on TikTok unpacking what the Bible really says about these contentious issues, and many more besides. His new book is called The Bible Says So: What We Get Right and Wrong about Scripture's Most Controversial Issues. Dan joins us to talk about it, about what it's like being a prominent TikToker, about his personal background, about comics, and more.   Full transcript is available here at relationscapes.org.  About the Author Dan McClellan is a public scholar of the Bible and religion and author of the New York Times bestseller, The Bible Says So: What We Get Right and Wrong about Scripture's Most Controversial Issues. He received his PhD in theology and religion from the University of Exeter. He enjoys confronting misinformation related to the Bible and religion online. He goes by @maklelan on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube. 

The Department of Education is being dismantled before our eyes. Why does it matter, and can it be rescued? Reporter Laura Pappano joins us with updates on these things, and her latest visit to the Moms for Liberty conference in Florida, where a new tactic is emerging.  Full transcript is available here at relationscapes.org.  Show Notes "Moms for quote-unquote 'Liberty,' (with Laura Pappano)," Relationscapes (September 2, 2025) Recent Laura Pappano articles:  "Moms (and Cool, Young Podcasters) for Liberty," Slate (October 20, 2025). "At Moms for Liberty summit, parents urged to turn their grievances into lawsuits," The Hechinger Report (October 20, 2025). "The new reality with universal school vouchers: Homeschoolers, marketing, pupil churn," The Hechinger Report (November 6, 2025).   About the Author Laura Pappano is an award-winning education journalist, author, and founder of The New Haven Student Journalism Project. Her latest book is called School Moms: Parent Activism, Partisan Politics and the Battle for Public Education. She is a former education columnist for The Boston Globe, and has published work in places like The New York Times Magazine, Vanity Fair, Salon, The Washington Post, USA Today, Slate, The Atlantic, and The Christian Science Monitor. 

Shen Yang broke the law simply by being born. It was the 1980s in China, and according to the One Child Policy, her parents weren't allowed to have her. They sent her away with relatives, and what followed were years of cruelty and neglect, but also defiance and the will to thrive. It's hard to find stories directly from excess children. Shen Yang's book is a rare gem. It's called More Than One Child: Memoirs of an Illegal Daughter. She joins us to talk about it in this episode.  Full transcript is available here at reltionscapes.org.  About the Author Shen Yang is author of the book, More Than One Child: Memoirs of an Illegal Daughter.

Chelsey Goodan says that for too long, teenage girls have been undervalued and overlooked. As a longtime tutor and mentor to hundreds of girls from many different backgrounds, Chelsey realized why so many were anxious and hurting. Because too many people treat teenage girls as problems to be controlled or solved. Chelsey says they have much to offer on topics like perfectionism, friendship, identity, shame, power, and more.  Whether you’re a parent, teacher, mentor, or just curious, this conversation will help you better appreciate what teenage girls have to offer.  Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.  Show Notes DemocraSHE, empowering young women to become leaders.  About the Author Chelsey Goodan is the founder of The Teenage Girl Cabal, which is a secret society of girls who are changing the world. As the author of the USA Today bestselling book Underestimated: The Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls, Goodan reveals how the wisdom of teenage girls can create positive change for society at large. After 16 years working as an academic tutor and mentoring girls from underserved communities, Goodan gathered key insights about teenage girls’ struggles with self-doubt, authenticity, confidence, leadership, connection, and power.

What does real support for trans kids look like in this fraught political moment? Ben V. Greene audaciously but persuasively suggests we try a joy-centered approach. Greene explains what parents and other loved ones can do when they’re uncertain about how to be there for trans kids, and why curiosity and compassion—not being perfect—makes all the difference. Green also explores what affirming therapy really is (and isn’t), how belonging improves mental health, and why love and understanding—not panic—save lives. This is a hopeful, human conversation for anyone trying to support a trans child or teen. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.    About the Guest Ben V. Greene is author of the book, My Child Is Trans, Now What? A Joy-Centered Approach to Support. As a transgender man, Ben works as an LGBTQ+ inclusion consultant who has dedicated his career to spreading empathy, awareness, and understanding about the transgender community. He is active on the speaking circuit, with audiences ranging from the UK’s Diversity Live! to NASA. Ben is a guest lecturer on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at Cornell University in addition to serving on the board of the Tufts Master’s Degree in Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. He resides in St. Louis, Missouri.

He was told he was broken. He was promised a cure. It was all a lie.  Lucas Wilson, author of Shame-Sex Attraction: Survivors' Stories of Conversion Therapy, takes us inside the real experiences of queer people forced to try and change their so-called "same-sex attraction." Lucas shares both his own story and those of survivors, revealing the psychological, moral, and spiritual harms of conversion therapy. He also explains why stories, not just statistics, are the most powerful way to confront the discredited practice. As the U.S. Supreme Court gears up to overturn conversion therapy bans, these stories matter now more than ever.  See the complete transcript at relationscapes.org.  Show Notes Boy Erased Chris Walker, "Supreme Court Appears Poised to Strike Down State Bans on Conversion Therapy," truthout.org. "Practices of so-called 'conversion therapy," report to the UN. About the Author Dr. Lucas Wilson is a SSHRC Postdoctoral Fellow at University of Toronto Mississauga. As a former evangelical and a survivor of conversion therapy, he is the editor of Shame-Sex Attraction: Survivors’ Stories of Conversion Therapy (JKP Books, 2025). He is also the author of At Home with the Holocaust: Postmemory, Domestic Space, and Second-Generation Holocaust Narratives (Rutgers University Press, 2025), which received the Jordan Schnitzer First Book Publication Award. He is also the co-editor of Emerging Trends in Third-Generation Holocaust Literature (Lexington Books, 2023), a collection of academic essays about the writings of grandchildren of Holocaust survivors, which has been named an “essential” title by Choice Reviews. His public-facing writing has appeared in The Advocate, Queerty, LGBTQ Nation, and Religion Dispatches, among other venues, and his academic work has appeared in Modern Language Studies, Canadian Jewish Studies, Flannery O’Connor Review, Journal of Jewish Identities, and Studies in American Jewish Literature and in edited collections published by The MLA, SUNY Press, The University of Alabama Press, and DIO Press. He is currently working on two interrelated monograph projects that examine evangelical homophobia and transphobia in the U.S.

Here's a frightening statistic: More young women age 18 to 29 voted for Donald Trump in 2024 than in 2016 or 2020. Why? Jess Britvich argues that TikTok and Instagram have been moving some young women rightward, without making it obvious.  Trends like clean beauty, natural living, tradwife aesthetics, or even yoga and wellness communities might look harmless on the surface—but many of them are pipelines to right-wing politics. The former social worker and content creator Jess Britvich explains how social media pipelines—from “SkinnyTok” to "clean" beauty products—pull people into conspiracy thinking and reactionary movements, and how we can stem the tide by becoming more media literate.  Full transcript available here at relationscapes.org.    Show Notes Young women trended slightly up toward Trump in 2024 according to the Center for American Women in Politics, "Gender Differences in 2024 Vote Choice Are Similar to Most Recent Presidential Elections," December 28, 2024. But also, "Gen Z Women Have Most Unfavorable View of Donald Trump: Poll," Newsweek, Sept. 9, 2025. The National Alliance for Eating Disorders has a helpful overview of #skinnytok, "What’s the Deal with #SkinnyTok?" The Conspirituality podcast was ahead of the curve covering RFK, Jr., so they were more than prepared for the rise of MAHA. For a more recent overview, see episode 259: "MAHA is Project 2025’s Trojan Horse," May 29, 2025.  See also the Diabolical Lies podcast, "MAHA Moms & the Politics of 'Wellness',” March 23, 2025. Brief overview of Charlie Kirk's greatest hits is available at "Charlie Kirk’s rhetoric inspired supporters, enraged foes," by Helen Coster and Maria Tsvetkova, Reuters.    About the Guest Jess Britvich is a content creator in Pittsburgh. Formerly a social worker, she turned her attention to online education in the wake of the global pandemic and the rise of MAGA influencers. Her Substack is substack.com/@jessbritvich. Follow her on TikTok and Instagram @jessbritvich. 

Who would choose to bring children into today’s world? Between climate change, economic strain, political conflict, and growing uncertainty about the future, more people today say they feel uncertain about parenthood, especially progressive people. Philosophers Anastasia Berg and Rachel Wiseman—authors of What Are Children For?—explore the personal, political, and philosophical stakes of having kids. From the tedium and vulnerability of early parenting to the profound meaning and joy it can bring, this conversation opens space for anyone wrestling with one of life’s biggest decisions.  Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.  About the Guests Anastasia Berg is Assistant Professor of Philosophy at University of California, Irvine. She serves as editor of ​The Point magazine, a Chicago-based literary magazine that publishes philosophical writing on everyday life and culture. Rachel Wiseman is managing editor of The Point. Together they wrote What Are Children For?: On Ambivalence and Choice.

Fatphobia is everywhere. It affects how we judge ourselves and each other. In this episode, philosopher Kate Manne exposes the social, ethical, and health-based consequences of anti-fat bias. Drawing on personal experience and sharp cultural analysis, Manne challenges dieting myths, weight-loss fads, and societal pressure to be thin. She invites us to practice “body reflexivity,” the radical idea that our bodies exist for ourselves, not merely for others. She explains why physical movement, health, and self-care matter more than size, and why dismantling fatphobia is a social justice issue. This episode turns the tables on fatphobia in a world obsessed with thinness, offering a liberating perspective about bodies and wellness. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.    Show Notes Wait for It podcast Maintenance Phase podcast Da'Shaun L. Harrison, Belly of the Beast: The Politics of Anti-Fatness as Anti-Blackness Sabrina Strings, "How the Use of BMI Fetishizes White Embodiment and Racializes Fat Phobia," AMA Journal of Ethics Relationscapes, "Swipe Left on Romance," with Sabrina Strings     About the Guest Kate Manne is author of Down Girl, Entitled, and Unshrinking. She's an associate professor of philosophy at Cornell University where she’s been teaching since 2013. Before that, she was a junior fellow at the Harvard Society of Fellows. Manne did her graduate work in philosophy at MIT. Her Substack is called More to Hate. 

Like a lot of American women, Aubrey Hirsch grew up trying to channel her own rage into other emotions. Maybe she wasn't mad, she was really jealous. Maybe she wasn't pissed off, she was actually sad. Eventually, Aubrey realized she had been suppressing something vital. Sometimes being angry is the main thing she should be. Instead of always running from her outrage, now she channels it into informative, funny, sometimes furious feminist comics. Aubrey joins us to talk about how she uses illustration to call out sexism, why rage can be a powerful force for collective change, and how we can channel it individually right now to change some things for the better. Her new book is called Graphic Rage: Comics on Gender, Justice, and Life As a Woman in America.    Show Notes Aubrey Hirsch, "Taking Back the Streets," The Nib, March 22, 2019. Eat the Damn Peach, and Other Love Stories (with Mary Catherine Starr)   About the Guest Aubrey Hirsch is author of Graphic Rage: Comics on Gender, Justice, and Life As a Woman in America. She is a writer and illustrator living in New York. Her stories, essays, and comics have appeared in The New York Times, Vox, TIME Magazine, American Short Fiction, Black Warrior Review, The Rumpus, The Nib and elsewhere. She is author of a short story collection, Why We Never Talk About Sugar, and a flash fiction chapbook, This Will Be His Legacy. She has taught writing at Oberlin College, The University of Pittsburgh, Colorado College, Georgia College and State University, and Chatham University. She is recipient of a 2022 National Endowment for the Arts fellowship in Literature, an individual artist award from the Sustainable Arts Foundation, the Daehler Fellowship in Creative Writing from The Colorado College, and The Meek Award for Graphic Nonfiction from The Florida Review.  Subscribe to her (free!) Substack and follow her on Instagram @aubreyhirsch.

Are men “naturally” violent? Are they hardwired to provide and protect? Does their DNA demand they stray? These questions persist in debates about masculinity, but they’re often answered with lazy biology. In this episode, anthropologist Matthew Gutmann dismantles biologically grounded gender essentialist myths. Drawing on decades of research—from fatherhood in Mexico to gender shifts in China—Gutmann shows how culture, history, and politics shape what we call “masculinity.” We talk about the dangers of blaming “male nature,” how fatherhood gets redefined across cultures, and why understanding men as human beings first opens the door to more freedom and accountability. His book is called Are Men Animals? How Modern Masculinity Sells Men Short. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.  About the Guest Matthew Gutmann is Professor Emeritus of Anthropology at Brown University. His research and teaching has focused on studies of men and masculinities; public health; politics; and the military. His latest book is Are Men Animals? How Modern Masculinity Sells Men Short.    

What does it mean to parent in a world that wasn’t built for you? Writer and disabled parent Eliza Hull joins us to talk about her groundbreaking anthology We’ve Got This: Essays by Disabled Parents. These essays challenge ableist assumptions, confront stigma, and spotlight the resilience and pride of disabled parents. Their stories aren't about about pity or inspirational “overcoming”—they are about identity, ingenuity, and reimagining parenthood through unapologetically disabled experiences.  Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.  About the Guest Eliza Hull is an award-winning musical artist, writer, journalist, and disability advocate based in Victoria, Australia. Her edited collection is called We've Got This: Essays by Disabled Parents.  

Happy 50th Episode! To celebrate, I invited Lauren Passell, a podcast hero of mine, to revisit a Relationscapes episode she recommended on her excellent Podcast The Newsletter. As a newly adoptive white mom of a child who is Black, Lauren was thrilled about Angela Tucker's interview.  Tucker is an incredible advocate for transracial adoptees.  Lauren opens up about the joys and challenges of raising a child in an open adoption, exploring questions about race, family, and community. Full transcript available here at relationscapes.org.  ABOUT THE GUEST Lauren Passell (she/her) is the founder and CEO of Tink Media, Podcast the Newsletter, Podcast Marketing Magic, and is the producer of Feed the Queue. She writes about podcasts for Lifehacker. She has spoken about podcast marketing for SXSW, Podcast Movement, Podfest, London Podcast Festival, The Podcast Show, and has taught classes for Harvard, Columbia, and more. She is a judge for The Webbys, Signal Awards, The Ambies, and the International Women's Podcast Awards. She lives in West Philly with her cat, husband, and daughter, and loves Disney.

For decades, public schools have been a cornerstone of American learning and civic life. But far-right groups have worked for years to turn these institutions into battlegrounds, pushing to control curricula, ban books, and restrict the rights of marginalized students, while whitewashing history and steamrolling over accessibility. The battle is reaching fever pitch today.  In her book School Moms, education journalist Laura Pappano takes us inside the world of parent activism, revealing how partisan actors mobilize to dismantle public education, enforce narrow ideological agendas, and silence dissent. This episode exposes the high-stakes struggle over the future of schools and what it means for students, educators, and communities across the country. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.  About the Guest Laura Pappano is an award-winning education journalist, author, and founder of The New Haven Student Journalism Project. Her latest book is called School Moms: Parent Activism, Partisan Politics and the Battle for Public Education. She is a former education columnist for The Boston Globe, and has published work in places like The New York Times Magazine, Vanity Fair, Salon, The Washington Post, USA Today, Slate, The Atlantic, and The Christian Science Monitor.   

When Anne Pinkerton's brother unexpectedly died alone in an extreme sport accident, she faced the same question over and over. People would always ask, "Were You Close?" They asked out of concern, but the question felt almost impossible to answer. In some ways, Anne and her brother David weren't close—they lived in different states, he was more than a decade older. But that distance seemed beside the point when she considered all the ways they were close. And after his death, she set out to find new ways to be closer. In this episode, Anne Pinkerton joins us to talk about how grief over the loss of a sibling is one of the most overlooked griefs people can experience.  Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.  About the Guest Anne Pinkerton is an essayist, memoirist, and poet. Her work often circles around grief and loss, as well as coping with these painful realities in our lives. Her memoir is called Were You Close? a sister’s quest to know the brother she lost. Visit her at annepinkertonwriter.com.  

What if the image the world loves you for is the one that’s destroying you? In her memoir Fetishized, Kaila Yu deconstructs "yellow fever," exploring how pop culture and Western beauty ideals shaped damaging stereotypes about Asian women—and how she once embodied them herself. After spending years in the pinup and import modeling world, auditioning for film roles steeped in dehumanizing tropes, touring globally with her all Asian American girl band, and altering her body to match impossible standards, the emotional costs became too much. So he began a new journey to reclaim her identity, beauty, and self-worth. Full transcript available at relationscapes.org.  About the Author Kaila Yu is author of Fetishized: A Reckoning with Yellow Fever, Feminism, and Beauty. She is a freelance writer for the Los Angeles Times, Rolling Stone, the New York Times, Business Insider, Conde Nast Traveler and more. Formerly, she was a model and the lead singer for the all–Asian American female rock band Nylon Pink. Fetishized is her first book. You can find Kaila online @kailayu.  

In this candid and funny conversation, artist and author Mary Catherine Starr talks about her viral comics on motherhood, marriage, mental load, and more. From the story of the infamous peanut butter jar to the deeper patterns of household inequality, Starr explores how social expectations, internalized roles, and everyday choices shape parenting partnerships. Through humor and heartfelt honesty, she reveals why moms need to "eat the damn peach"—and why it's never just about the peach. Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org.    ABOUT THE GUEST Mary Catherine Starr is an artist and graphic designer. Her popular Instagram account @momlife_comics explores motherhood, marriage, and the double standards of parenting through funny, relatable, and sometimes maddening comics. She lives on Cape Cod, Massachusetts, with her husband, their two children, and her son’s large collection of plastic dinosaurs.

Most people who experience the death of a parent come to understand that grief isn’t something you get over—it's something you try to learn how to live with. That's what author Maddie Norris discovered after losing her dad at seventeen. Instead of looking away from the pain, she studied it—through the lens of her father's own work as a medical researcher on the science of wounds.  Maddie joins us to talk about her debut book The Wet Wound: An Elegy In Essays, weaving together the history of wound care and the rituals of mourning. Maddie challenges the idea that healing means letting go. She asks: what if grief is more like tending an open wound—something tender, and ongoing, and sometimes even joyful? Complete transcript available at relationscapes.org.    ABOUT THE GUEST MADDIE NORRIS is author of The Wet Wound: An Elegy in Essays. She is a visiting assistant professor at the Davidson College in North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Her award-winning work has been named as notable in Best American Essays.