This week: Larry Summers has stepped down from his public positions following the release of unsavory emails he exchanged with Jeffrey Epstein. Felix Salmon, Elizabeth Spiers, and Emily Peck discuss Summers’ correspondence with the infamous sex trafficker, the veracity of his “genius” reputation, and his beef with Felix. Then, Meta has won its anti-trust case, highlighting the current struggle to regulate Big Tech. The hosts examine the landscape of anti-trust efforts in the US and whether it is the correct tool for regulating tech behemoths. Then, everyone is talking about the “AI bubble” right now, but what does that actually mean? The hosts break down the state of the AI market and whether or not calling it a “bubble” is the right way to think about it.  In the Slate Plus episode: Thanksgiving Hot Takes! Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode host Kate Lindsay is joined by porn historian Noelle Perdue, author of the Porn World newsletter. OpenAI announced that they’d allow adult users to have erotic conversations with ChatGPT, just one more way AI and porn are becoming intertwined. As sex becomes more online, not only does it become more solitary, but also more surveilled. Both of these things are intended to divide us, but Noelle is confident that AI’s attempted sex-takeover will fail.  This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dahlia Lithwick is joined by former federal prosecutor Mimi Rocah, who brings her extensive experience trying and supervising federal criminal cases to a discussion of what the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein’s sexual abuse can teach us about justice. She suggests that the Trump administration’s eleventh-hour switchback tactic of calling for investigations of only Democrats speaks volumes about how the Justice Department is functioning these days, proving that vindictive prosecutions are the only game in town, bonus if they also have the effect of power-washing the president’s shadow from the scandal. Next, they turn to the extraordinary scenes in a Virginia courtroom this week, as the DOJ’s case against former FBI director and Trump foe James Comey seemed ready  to fall apart at the seams. As this administration’s practice of political interference in legal proceedings is supercharged by dear leader’s “Dear Pam”  posts to “his” AG Pam Bondi, this conversation highlights why judicial integrity and the ever-expanding ranks of judges refusing to accept lies, are among the last best hopes for equal justice under the law in America.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Trump promised to stop the “persecution” of the cryptocurrency industry. He did call off the SEC investigations that began under Biden, and pardoned Binance cofounder and ex-CEO Changpeng Zhao. But is the crypto industry ultimately better off because of that?  Guest: David Yaffe-Bellany, tech reporter for the New York Times. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell, and Patrick Fort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss a new oral history of President Trump’s Department of Justice, the complex transactional nationalism of this week’s visit from Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman with guest Jake Sullivan, former National Security Advisor and co-host of the new podcast The Long Game, and what is likely to happen now that Trump has signed the bill to release the Justice Department’s Epstein files. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss the sordid scandal around the tangled relationships of political reporter Olivia Nuzzi and the complex questions it raises about relationships between journalists and their sources.   In the latest Gabfest Reads, John talks with journalist and author Andrew Ross Sorkin about his new book, 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History and How It Shattered a Nation — the story of speculation, debt, and the human drives that fueled the Wall Street crash that changed everything.   Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)   Podcast production by Nina Porzucki   Research by Emily Ditto You can find the full Political Gabfest show pages here.   Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

People have been talking about how the penny is more trouble than it’s worth for 50 years—so why drop it now? And—other than having nothing to put in our loafers—will it be missed?  Guest: Caity Weaver, writer at The Atlantic. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ongoing civil war in Sudan has left tens of thousands dead, with millions displaced. A country of great natural resources, regional foreign governments have chosen sides—but foreign aid from the US that had mitigated some of the war’s damage is gone.  Guest: David Miliband, president and CEO of the International Rescue Committee, former UK foreign secretary 2007-2010. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You can’t really blame Donald Trump for thinking he could just handwave away the Epstein Files. But for the first time in what feels like forever, his base, the GOP, and his own desires don’t quite align.  Guest: Will Sommer, senior reporter at the Bulwark.  Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Trump can’t seem to decide if the National Guard is needed in American cities to stop violent crime, or to assist ICE deportations, or something else entirely. And the lack of a clear and present crisis is starting to make some Guard members uncomfortable.  Guest: Kat Lonsdorf, news reporter for National Public Radio. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The parent company of Facebook and Instagram, Meta, doesn’t (just) have a scam problem—with 10 percent of its revenue coming from scam ads, and a third of all successful scams in America using a Meta platform at some point, it’s more an interdependence with scammers. Guest: Jeff Horwitz, tech reporter for Reuters. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week: FHFA director Bill Pulte convinced Trump to back 50-year mortgages with some posterboard and a photo of FDR.  Felix Salmon, Elizabeth Spiers, and Emily Peck, discuss why Trump’s post about 50-year mortgages angered conservatives – officials and voters alike – and why they’re more of a hindrance than a solution to the housing crisis. Then, the White House is considering limiting the power of proxy advisers and index-fund managers on shareholder voting. The hosts explain what this would mean for shareholders and how billionaires like Elon Musk and Jamie Dimon, vocal opponents of these firms, stand to gain even more power if they do. Then finally, Robinhood has announced a new service that delivers cash to your door and the hosts ponder the use cases and mechanics of such a thing.  In the Slate Plus episode: Can You Do That With a Comma? Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Get 50% Off Monarch Money, the all-in-one financial tool at ⁠www.monarchmoney.com/SLATE⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dahlia Lithwick welcomes retired federal judge Mark Wolf for his first ever podcast interview. The Reagan-appointed jurist made headlines last week with his searing indictment of the threat posed to the rule of law and democracy by the current administration. Judge Wolf opens up about his decision to leave the bench after decades of public service and the challenges faced by judges in the face of a president and a Justice Department showing scant regard for the rules.  Next, Dahlia is joined by California Attorney General Rob Bonta, who tells her, “If Trump breaks the law and hurts our state, we sue him.” Together, they discuss the urgency of justice in response to the tactics employed by the Trump administration. As Democratic AGs band together to sue against unlawful executive actions, Bonta explains their strategies in securing injunctions against the administration.  Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

They don’t cut cleanly along party lines, but data centers, and where they get built, became an election issue in Virginia. With so many more data centers to build, are we looking at a new trend?  Guest: Margaret Barthel, reporter covering northern Virginia for WAMU.  Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell, and Patrick Fort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss why Democrats caved to end the government shutdown and what comes next, the affordability crisis with guest and editorial director for New York Times Opinion David Leonhardt, and the importance of this week’s spectacle of competing Epstein document drops. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss the consequential career and historic legacy of Nancy Pelosi, the first woman to serve as Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, who announced her retirement from Congress.   In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with Yale law professor John Witt about his new book, The Radical Fund: How a Band of Visionaries and a Million Dollars Upended America. They explore the remarkable story of the Garland Fund—a small 1920s foundation that bankrolled early work by A. Philip Randolph, and others who would go on to shape the civil rights and labor movements.   Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)   Podcast production by Kevin Bendis   Research by Emily Ditto You can find the full Political Gabfest show pages here.   Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why would Elon Musk attempt to replace Wikipedia—which is already quite futuristic, utopian and accurate—with a faulty, hallucinatory A.I.-powered “Grokipedia”? Well, see, he called it “Wokepedia…” Guest: Stephen Harrison, writer, tech lawyer, author of “Why Editing Wikipedia Is Becoming More Dangerous” for Slate and The Editors, a novel about Wikipedia. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It didn’t take long to go from Beyoncé holding for applause in front of the word “FEMINISM” to a headline in the New York Times asking “Did Women Ruin the Workplace?” How long is this backlash going to last? Guest:  Danielle Kurtzleben, political correspondent at NPR.  Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode host Kate Lindsay is joined by Yahoo News senior entertainment writer, Kelsey Weekman, to answer the question on everyone’s lips: Who is Alex Warren and why is every store playing his music? The Hype House OG is nominated for Best New Artist at the Grammys, and is part of a growing wave of musicians making “secular praise music.” Where did Alex Warren come from, and how did he pull off a musical career pivot when so many other TikTokkers failed?  This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It has been the longest government shutdown on record. Why did the Democrats choose this moment—right after elections proved how unpopular Donald Trump and his policies truly are—to cave in and end it? Guest: Jamelle Bouie, New York Times opinion columnist. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this Money Talks: Elizabeth Spiers is joined by Anna Gifty Opoku-Agyeman, to discuss her book The Double Tax: How Women of Color Are Overcharged and Underpaid. They discuss Anna’s extensive research into how racism and sexism create real economic barriers in the US, why it’s not just women of color who should be worried about this disturbing trend, and what can actually be done about it. Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hosts Alex Kirshner, Lindsay Gibbs, and Ben Lindbergh are joined by Knicks superfan and X-Ray Vision host Jason Concepcion for a discussion on Zohran Mamdani’s Knicks fandom and the team’s presence in the mayoral race. The panel turns to yet another major betting scandal – this time in Major League Baseball. Later, journalist Nathan Fenno joins to explain the wave of high-profile burglaries targeting professional athletes. On the bonus episode available exclusively for Slate Plus members, the panel talks about Project B and the future for women’s basketball around the world. Brunson for Mayor (4:27): The Knicks and New York politics Guardians players indicted for gambling (23:27): Baseball stars face charges for prop bets. Sports burglaries (45:52): The rash of robberies targeting pro athletes (Note: time codes are only accurate for Slate Plus members, who listen ad-free.) Get more Hang Up and Listen with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Hang Up and Listen and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Hang Up and Listen show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/hangupplus for access wherever you listen. You can email us at hangup@slate.com. Podcast production and editing by Kevin Bendis, with production assistance from Patrick Fort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices