Jayne Sugg joins us on the space for faith podcast today, where we talk about how her faith has evolved and changed, and the way that she expresses that journey through her music and particularly through her new album, Belief is Hard. She takes us on her journey of deconstruction and reconstruction, and as we hear portions of her album, she unpacks for us what she was expressing that will resonate with with many of our experiences.  Jayne Sugg is a New Mexico native who’s made NYC her home for the past seven years, sharing an East Village apartment with her husband Alex, and their Saint Bernard, Simba. After a decade of travel, work in music ministry, and completing an MA in Language, Literacy, and Sociocultural Studies, she now channels her journey through teaching, writing, and music. A member of the Good Shepherd Collective, Jayne has released her first EP, "It’s So Dark", and her newest album "Belief is Hard" has recently debuted, sharing her journey of self-discovery and spiritual renewal through her songwriting. Jayne's Website Belief is Hard Spotify  Apple Music Jayne's Instagram ---------- To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting, and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808    

    Chuck DeGroat is on the podcast today as we explore understanding what is trauma, the 3 questions from Genesis 3 that open us up to healing the wounds within us in order to become ourselves again, and the intersection of spiritual trauma and stages of faith. Chuck ends our time by leading us through a practice together.    Chuck DeGroat is a professor of pastoral care and Christian spirituality at Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan, where he also serves as the founding executive director of the clinical mental health counseling program. He is a licensed therapist, spiritual director, author, retreat leader speaker, and faculty member with the Soul Care Institute. As a therapist, he specializes in navigating issues of abuse and trauma, pastoral (and leadership) health, and doubt and dark nights on the faith journey. He trains clergy in handling issues of abuse and trauma, conducts pastor and planter assessments, and facilitates church consultations and investigations of abuse. Before transitioning to training and forming pastors, Chuck served as a pastor in Orlando and San Francisco. He and his wife, Sara, have been married for 30 years and have two adult daughters.   Chuck’s newest book - Healing What’s Within Find Chuck on X, Instagram, Threads ChuckDeGroat.net   ---------- To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting, and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808

Brit Barron joins me on the podcast today where we talk about her new book, Do You Still Talk to Grandma?, canceling our grandmas, progressive amnesia, messages of transformation that can make for movement,  a healthy suspicion about my own righteousness, our incessant need for an external authority, and the beautiful benediction that they offer at their church each week.  Brit is a professional chatterbox both on stages and paper.  She engages audiences with narratives that inspire, educate, and entertain. As an experienced storyteller, she have become known for her ability to use personal narratives and experiences from her own life to highlight larger, universal truths. She is recognized by her casual speaking style, use of humor, and ability to capture an audience. Leaving a lasting impact on audiences across the globe. Brit is a published author known for her insightful works that delve into the depths of human experience. Her upcoming book Do You Still Talk to Grandma? Invites readers to imagine the world beyond cancel culture and is an invitation to nuance. Her first book WORTH IT invites readers on a journey of discovery, reflection, and transformation. Do You Still Talk to Grandma - Brit’s new book Brit’s Sermon at South Bend City Church Brit’s Website Brit on Instagram   ---------- To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting, and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808  

Mariko Clark and Rachel Eleanor are the creators of the new Children's Bible, The Book of Belonging. It's a book of Bible stories for kind and contemplative kids, where they create space for wonder, contemplation, and identity, recognizing that everyone belongs. They share it's origin story (beginning with Mariko's daughter asking if God loves boys more than girls because of the representation she was experiencing in her own Children's Bible), how the process of creating it has affected each of them, why they chose to have created some visual depictions of God, and the thoughtful reasons they chose to utilize people's Hebrew names rather than their anglicized names in their stories.  I couldn't be more excited for this to be out in the world when it releases on September 24.  The Book of Belonging Mariko on Instagram Rachel on Instagram The Book of Belonging Substack ---------- To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting, and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808  

Tiffany Bluhm joins me on the podcast today. We talk about a more redemptive way of reading women's stories in the Scriptures, self-care for social change, a better devotional, and some of the ways the stories of women in the Scriptures intersect with more modern historical stories of women.  Tiffany Bluhm is the author of Prey Tell: Why We Silence Women Who Tell the Truth and How Everyone Can Speak Up, Never Alone, and She Dreams. With over 15 years of ministry and non-profit leadership experience, she serves at the intersection of faith and leadership,  women’s issues and justice. She is a sought after speaker who empowers audiences at companies, conferences, and churches around the world, with her talks translated into over 30 languages. Her written work has been featured in Publisher’s Weekly, Sojourners, the YouVersion Bible App, Scary Mommy, The Hallmark Channel, Jenny McCarthy Show, and a host of other sites.   Tiffany lives in the PNW with her husband and two sons. The Women We've Been Waiting for Prey Tell Tiffany's website Tiffany's Instagram ---------- To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting, and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808

Today I get to spend some time talking with Micha Boyett. We talk about her newest book, Blessed Are the Rest of Us. She shares about how her son with Down Syndrome and Autism gave her a new perspective on flourishing within limits and redefining the norms of society. We talk about reading the Beatitudes as a poem, and what it looks like to pursue the upside-down Kingdom of Jesus.  Micha Boyett is the author of Found: A Story of Questions, Grace, and Everyday Prayer and a contributor to the New York Times bestseller A Rhythm of Prayer, edited by Sarah Bessey. She is cohost of the award winning The Lucky Few podcast, creator of The Slow Way podcast and newsletter, and has written for publications such as the Washington Post and Christianity Today. In addition to her work as a writer, she is a part-time youth pastor at Good Shepherd Church in New York City. Boyett lives with her husband and their three sons.   Micha's website Instagram Substack   --------- To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting, and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808

Jon Huckins is the co founder of Global Immersion, a peacemaking training organization, and was the co-director until 2023. He is now the founder of Journey Home and Adjunct Professor of New Testament at Point Loma Nazarene University.    Jon and I talk about vocational shifts, the performative nature of the way we found ourselves doing our work, his journey into post-evangelicalism, the Camino de Santiago, and the immersive experience of a pilgrimage that opens the pilgrim up to find some kind of healing, awakening, and transformation. He shares about the importance of spaces for dominant culture men to do their own work to become second half of life leaders.   journeyhome.info Jon Huckins on Instagram Jon's book that he mentions briefly, Mending Divides: Creative Love in a Conflicted World   --------------------- To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting, and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808

Keri Ladouceur joins us today to talk about mutual flourishing for Israelis and Palestinians. Keri is the Executive Director of the Post Evangelical Collective and hosts A Third Way Podcast. She has been hosting a series on her podcast on a Christian Perspective on Peace in the Middle East. After a short conversation about why these conversations matter, we’ll listen in on one of those conversations with Greg Kahlil, one of the co-founders of the Telos Group.    Keri’s A Third Way Podcast where you can hear more of her conversations on the conflict between Israel and Palestine through the lens of the subversive way of Jesus   Check out The Telos Group Practices and Principles of Peacemaking   ------------------ To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808

We're finishing up our time together in The Divine Conspiracy Project this week as we cover the last chapter, chapter 10. We don't have a guest this week, and Mike tackles the chapter alone and then offers some reflections on re-engaging this book over the past few months. We talk a bit about the loss of a future hope for post-evangelicals as it relates to the afterlife, the significance of recognizing the physicality of the future hope, and the intersection of personal transformation and the transformation of systems and structures, with a good bit of rambling to try and make sense of it all :)    The Divine Conspiracy - Book Audiobook for the Divine Conspiracy on Spotify   The Divine Conspiracy Project Info and Reading Plan   ------------------ To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting, and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808  

We’re getting close to the end of our time in the Divine Conspiracy and joining us today in one of the final chapters is Justin Morgan. Justin is the pastor of Church on Morgan (which is not named after him…which we talk about in the episode). One of the reasons we wanted to have Justin on for this specific chapter is because Willard lays out some of the vision that Justin grabbed ahold of when he first started Church on Morgan, but that he would eventually find not fully adequate for the work that they were doing. He thoughtfully engages with both an appreciation for Willard and The Divine Conspiracy, but also offers critique based on what he experienced in his church. This conversation was a gift.  Church on Morgan’s Website Church on Morgan on the Instagram   The Divine Conspiracy - Book Audiobook for the Divine Conspiracy on Spotify   The Divine Conspiracy Project Info and Reading Plan   ------------------ To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808  

John Ortberg joins us on the podcast today as we continue on in the Divine Conspiracy Project, looking at Chapter 8 of the book. John is a pastor, author, and speaker. He’s been in ministry for over 40 years and teaches around a central theme of spiritual formation. John is a deep believer that the main thing God gets out of your life is the person you become. He desires for people to know God in an interactive, life- transforming way. Presently, John leads the ministry, Become New, focused on leveraging online technology for life change and spiritual community. Dallas Willard was a mentor to John and John would lovingly refer to some of the books that he authored as “Dallas for Dummies”.  We talk about Jesus’ narrow way as a way of life, God’s desire for you to become the kind of person that God can set loose in the universe to do what you want to do, the interaction between behavior and belief, our mental maps, faith in Jesus and the faith of Jesus, and all kinds of tangents along the way.   Find John at Become New John’s books on Amazon     The Divine Conspiracy - Book Audiobook for the Divine Conspiracy on Spotify   The Divine Conspiracy Project Info and Reading Plan   ------------------ To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808    

Jeremy Jernigan joins us on the podcast this week to discuss Chapter 7 of The Divine Conspiracy as we continue in The Divine Conspiracy Project. Jeremy is the founder of Communion Wine Co, he leads the Cabernet and Pray podcast, and is known as “The Wine Pastor”.  Jeremy and I talk about a wide array of topics that this chapter brought up for us - dealing with contempt, prayer, Open Theism and how all of that relates as our faith grows and shifts and changes.  You can find Jeremy at: His website Cabernet and Pray Podcast Instagram   The Divine Conspiracy - Book Audiobook for the Divine Conspiracy on Spotify   The Divine Conspiracy Project Info and Reading Plan   ------------------ To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808  

Steve Carter- The Divine Conspiracy Ch 6 (071)   Steve Carter joins us on the podcast again today. Steve is the best selling author of the book, The Thing Beneath the Thing, he hosts a podcast about the intersection of the craft of preaching and who we are becoming called Craft and Character, he’s a coach to communicators, and is a Teaching Pastor at Forest City Church.    Steve and I first talk briefly about his newest book, Grieve, Breathe, Receive. We then talk about the sixth chapter of The Divine Conspiracy where we tackle how he stalked Dallas during college, our shadow sides and false selves, being honest about our motivations, intentional spiritual disciplines that we engage in, making decisions from trust rather than fear, and not bypassing the wilderness. Steve gives us a gift in our conversation today.    Steve’s Website Grieve, Breathe, Receive - Steve’s Newest Book Steve on Instagram Craft and Character Podcast   The Divine Conspiracy - Book Audiobook for the Divine Conspiracy on Spotify   The Divine Conspiracy Project Info and Reading Plan   ------------------ To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808  

Michael Hidalgo- The Divine Conspiracy Ch 5 (070)   Michael Hidalgo joins us today to continue in our discussion on The Divine Conspiracy. Michael is  the Lead Pastor of Denver Community Church, the author of Unlost: Being Found by the One We Are Looking For and Changing Faith: Questions, Doubts and Choices About the Unchanging God, the host of “The Changing Faith Podcast”, a speaker, retreat leader and an associate with GiANT London. He lives with his wife and children in Denver, Colorado. Michael and I tackle the longest chapter in The Divine Conspiracy with a conversation ranging from inner transformation that begins with an embrace of being loved, spiral dynamics, and the concreteness of community. Michael’s Website Michael’s Instagram Denver Community Church   The Divine Conspiracy - Book Audiobook for the Divine Conspiracy on Spotify   The Divine Conspiracy Project Info and Reading Plan   ------------------ To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808  

Jason Miller joins us on the podcast again, this time to talk about Chapter 5 of the Divine Conspiracy, where Willard (and Jason) unpack the Beatitudes for us. Jason is a pastor who never quite felt at home in church, an artist who figured out the sermon is his song, and a teacher who still has some questions. he studied theology in the graduate school at the University of Notre Dame, and follows Jesus with the people of South Bend City Church, an eclectic Christian community known for its thoughtful teaching, inclusive vision, and commitment to its city context.   Jason and I talk about the way that Willard opened the door for us to see a better way of engaging with the Beatitudes, where Jason’s own study and work has led him to make sense of these same opening words of Jesus in his sermon and he gives us a soap box about the way we’re misreading Luke 4. Jason always gives us so much to think about and today’s episode is no different.    jasonadammiller.com When the World Breaks…Jason’s newest book Jason on Instagram South Bend City Church Sermons   The Divine Conspiracy - Book Audiobook for the Divine Conspiracy on Spotify   The Divine Conspiracy Project Info and Reading Plan   ------------------ To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808  

Jason Miller joins us on the podcast again, this time to talk about Chapter 5 of the Divine Conspiracy, where Willard (and Jason) unpack the Beatitudes for us. Jason is a pastor who never quite felt at home in church, an artist who figured out the sermon is his song, and a teacher who still has some questions. he studied theology in the graduate school at the University of Notre Dame, and follows Jesus with the people of South Bend City Church, an eclectic Christian community known for its thoughtful teaching, inclusive vision, and commitment to its city context.   Jason and I talk about the way that Willard opened the door for us to see a better way of engaging with the Beatitudes, where Jason’s own study and work has led him to make sense of these same opening words of Jesus in his sermon and he gives us a soap box about the way we’re misreading Luke 4. Jason always gives us so much to think about and today’s episode is no different.    jasonadammiller.com When the World Breaks…Jason’s newest book Jason on Instagram South Bend City Church Sermons   The Divine Conspiracy - Book Audiobook for the Divine Conspiracy on Spotify   The Divine Conspiracy Project Info and Reading Plan   ------------------ To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808  

Aaron Niequist is a liturgist, writer, and pastor currently living in New York City. He is the creator of A New Liturgy, founder of Pastors, Priests and Guides and the author of The Eternal Current.  Aaron and I shared together in his first earthquake, which hit New York while recording this podcast. But we also talk about understanding God’s presence and space and how we open ourselves up with new eyes to recognize its implications around us, and experiencing the reality of the way the world actually works.  Pastors, Priests and Guides Retreats Aaron’s Book - The Eternal Current Aaron on IG   The Divine Conspiracy - Book Audiobook for the Divine Conspiracy on Spotify   The Divine Conspiracy Project Info and Reading Plan   ------------------ To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting, and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808  

Brian Zahnd joins us again on the podcast to engage in the third chapter of the Divine Conspiracy. Brian is the founder and lead pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, Missouri. He’s also a pastor-theologian who has authored eleven books, including most recently The Wood Between the Worlds.   BZ and I briefly talk about his new book, the unique story of how he first came across The Divine Conspiracy and the significant shifts it brought about in his own life, salvation as something other than a transaction that what happens to you after you die, moving beyond altar calls, how “Christianity without transcendence denigrates into politics”, and some of what they have created in recent years at Word of Life Church.    Brian’s website Word of Life Church  The Wood Between the Worlds BZ’s Instagram   The Divine Conspiracy - Book Audiobook for the Divine Conspiracy on Spotify   The Divine Conspiracy Project Info and Reading Plan   ------------------ To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808  

Sean Palmer joins us today to delve into the first chapter of The Divine Conspiracy. Sean is an enneagram theorist, a preacher and a pastor, a speaking coach and author. He’s currently the Teaching Pastor at Ecclesia Houston, and most recently is the author of Speaking by the Numbers.  Sean and I talk about how the Divine Conspiracy helped to give Jesus as fresh hearing for those like us who had presumed familiarity that led to unfamiliarity. We talk about what it means to do life with God, what a kingdom is, and how this changed and shaped our view of the work Jesus was about, and we even threw in a bit of quick baseball talk.    Sean’s Website Sean’s Substack   The Divine Conspiracy - Book Audiobook for the Divine Conspiracy on Spotify   The Divine Conspiracy Project Info and Reading Plan   Becoming Dallas Willard by Gary Moon The Theology of Dallas Willard by Gary Black   ------------------ To help support Mike and his work, which includes this podcast, as well as his ability to offer discounted coaching, consulting and preaching to churches, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808

Jan Johnson is an author, speaker, college professor, and spiritual director. Amongst the many books she's written, she co-authored the Study Guide for the Divine Conspiracy. Jan also serves in leadership for the Dallas Willard School of Kingdom Living. She is someone who knew Dallas well, has been interacting with the ideas from the Divine Conspiracy for over two decades, and has been teaching and creating content from it for about as long as well. She's a great guest to introduce us to some of what we'll experience as we engage in The Divine Conspiracy together.   Jan Johnson The School of Kingdom Living The Divine Conspiracy The Divine Conspiracy Study Guide The Divine Conspiracy Project Info and Reading Plan ------------------ To help support me and my work, which includes this podcast, you can make tax-deductible donations to:“WE Ministries”And mail it to:Mike Goldsworthy6285 E. Spring St #474Long Beach, CA 90808