“My goal isn’t to win the hours. I want to be present.” — Shelley Evans
When a “good career” starts to feel like a bad relationship, walking away is just the start. After you escape the grind, you realize the grind is YOU, and the work has just begun. Shelley and Matt share how crisis-mode and productivity hacks kept them reactive—and what changed when they chose a self‑sustaining creative practice over the fool’s gold of trying to do it all, all at once.
In this open, honest discussion, we look at why mainstream productivity culture fails creative people—and what actually works instead.
Shelley describes realizing her Hollywood career was akin to an “abusive spouse”. After she chose to step away to write her novel, her biggest achievement wasn’t logging more hours, it was moving from punishing deadlines to presence, using “marbles in a jar” to measure engaged time and pulling the Creative Focus Workshop “ripcord” to recenter herself when she got off track.
Matt shares how 100-hour weeks in tech and spinning in endless “preparation” felt productive but in fact kept him from writing. When he (finally!) chose a single project, he created steadiness and progress he could trust.
We talk about “finish and ship” as the foundation of art as communication, why the Motion AI calendar that postponed lunch until April is the clearest sign yet that productivity hacking is a dead end, and how short, ten‑minute sessions beat perfectionism because you discover better questions once you’re in motion.
If you’re stuck in reactive mode, or drowning in “optimizing,” this conversation gives you simple, human practices to return to your work and keep going.
If you’re ready to swap punishment for presence with your creative work, and actually finish, watch the free Creative Engine workshop. Master the 4 simple steps to finishing your dream creative projects!
Shelley Evans is a screenwriter and teacher (Harvard Extension School) whose credits include ABC, CBS, Showtime, USA, Hallmark, and Lifetime. She’s now focused on her novel and on building a sustainable, presence‑based creative practice.
Matt Griffin is a writer, adjunct professor (NYU IDM/ITP), conference producer (NarraScope 2025), consultant, 3D printing and biofabrication expert (MakerBot/Ultimaker). He’s currently writing an interactive novel for Choice of Games.
What happens when you follow your curiosity down an unexpected rabbit hole…and it leads to massive business success? Marie Poulin started as a freelance designer, but her obsession with systems thinking and digital organization evolved into something much bigger. In this candid conversation, she reveals how a side project teaching Notion exploded into a thriving business, and the hard choices and major pivots it took to get there. For anyone who's ever wondered if their niche fascination could become their whole career, this is a must-listen episode.
Marie Poulin is a designer, systems thinker, and co-founder of Oki Doki. She's the creator of Notion Mastery, a course and community that helps entrepreneurs and small teams build sustainable, customized systems for work and life. Through her work, Marie helps people rethink how they work, from workflow to knowledge management, focusing on building more human and neurodivergent-friendly ways of organizing digital lives.
What happens to your business when you take an extended break from social media? Will it fall apart? Wither on the vine?
What if the answer is…not much?
Meg Casebolt is an SEO expert and the founder of Love at First Search, an agency that helps online businesses get found in search results, and to turn new readers into leads, subscribers and sales.
Meg’s business used to be super active on social media, until a few years ago when she took a 100-day social media break. Kind of by accident. That’s when Meg discovered that even though social media had been taking up a ton of her time, it wasn’t contributing much to her sales.
In this episode, we discuss Meg’s new book, Social Slowdown, which examines the intersection of entrepreneurship, social media, and mental health, and explore creative new ways to engage with your audience and find clients without relying on social media.
Meg Casebolt is a digital marketing strategist, SEO specialist, boy mom, productivity nerd, and bibliophile. Meg’s been helping business owners create beautiful, search-friendly websites and strategic content for the past 6 years.
https://loveatfirstsearch.com/
https://www.socialslowdown.com/
Social Slowdown: Take a social media break,... by Casebolt, Meg (amazon.com)
Do you struggle to figure out how to price your work so that it’s actually profitable for you…and then to actually say that price out loud, without mumbling or undercutting yourself?
Do you find yourself rushing to offer a discount BEFORE anyone even asks?
On this episode, I’m joined by Rauni Higson, one of Britain’s leading silversmiths. When I first met Rauni, she was chronically undercharging for her work, experiencing major feast or famine cycles, and generally running herself ragged teaching and taking on low-end work.
Discover how Rauni learned to price her work for a profit, and effectively communicate the value of her work to clients without feeling like she had to put on airs. And how that higher pricing helped her break the cycle of needing to fill her income gap by taking on tons of other low-margin work.
Rauni Higson is one of Britain’s leading silversmiths. Originally trained in Finland, her studio is located in the dramatic landscape of Snowdonia, a rich backdrop of mountainous crags and rugged coastline that inform her work. All her pieces are made by hand and by hammer, using her contemporary interpretation of traditional skills.
Jessica Abel on Creative Mornings
How to find (and actually talk to) your ideal clients, with Sarah Marie Lacy - Jessica Abel
Samantha Clark is an award-winning artist and lauded author who recently transitioned from an academic career to creative coaching. After a year of hitting her income goals and filling her roster with clients, Sam hit a revenue ceiling.
Sam realized she needed to earn more—a lot more. Especially if she wanted to build up her savings and plan for retirement. But she didn’t know how to increase her revenue without increasing her workload.
On this episode, Sam and I explore strategies for escaping an income plateau, why doubling down on your marketing efforts won't solve your revenue problem, and how to address pricing and imposter syndrome.
Samantha Clark is an award-winning visual artist of 30 years’ experience, a published author with a PhD in Creative Writing, and a university-level educator for over 25 years.
https://jessicaabel.com/podcast/find-your-ideal-clients-with-sarah-lacy/
If you have a brain that doesn’t work the way it seems like everyone else’s does, or at least the way people tell you it should, that can be challenging. But can it also be a source of strength.
On this episode of the Autonomous Creative, we're talking about neurodiversity and how to identify the tools you need to move from intention to action. I’m joined by Emily Zilber, a curator with twenty years of professional experience in art museums and cultural organizations. Emily was diagnosed with ADHD in her late 30s, and now brings strengths-based, neurodiversity-informed coaching skills to artists, creatives, and cultural workers.
Join us as we explore the different frameworks for understanding neurodiversity, how it impacts creative life and business, and the importance of understanding one’s brain’s unique needs.
Through Avid Gaze Coaching & Consulting, Emily Zilber offers support and strategy for artists, creatives, and cultural workers. She brings twenty years of professional experience as a curator, educator, and writer in art museums, cultural organizations, and higher education to her work with clients, as well formal training in strengths-based, neurodiversity-informed coaching skills.
Gabriela Pereira, my friend and the founder of DIY MFA, interviews me about creative flow. I share my strategies for building focus and reducing decision fatigue, and we do a major deep dive into one of my favorite topics: how to end the never-ending cycle of burnout and design a sustainable creative career.
Gabriela Pereira is a writer, teacher, and self-proclaimed word nerd who wants to challenge the status quo of higher education. As the founder and instigator of DIYMFA.com, her mission is to empower writers to take an entrepreneurial approach to their education and professional growth. Gabriela earned her MFA in creative writing from The New School and teaches at national conferences, local workshops, and online. She is also the host of DIY MFA Radio, a popular podcast where she interviews bestselling authors and offers short audio master classes. Her book DIY MFA: Write with Focus, Read with Purpose, Build Your Community is out now from Writer’s Digest Books.
Hustle Culture is a Scam. Here's How You Really Reach Creative Career Success.
When painter Sarah Marie Lacy decided to double down on portrait commissions as her primary source of income, she was severely undercharging for her work, but had no idea what her prices should be, or who would possibly pay those much-higher prices.
Now? Sarah has a six-month waiting list, regularly rubs elbows with CEOs and ambassadors, and is a member of the most exclusive club in Ottawa. In this super-actionable conversation, Sarah and I explore the series of steps she took to more than triple her prices and to start building relationships with her ideal clients.
Sarah Lacy is an artist, portrait painter and teacher who is endlessly fascinated by the human body in all of its intricacy, subtlety, grace and vulnerability.
On this episode, I’m joined by award-winning documentary filmmaker Henry Thong for a conversation about courage before confidence. Henry’s entire career is arguably based on his willingness to get out there before he’s “ready.”
He began his freelance career right out of high school, skipping film school altogether. He moved from Australia to NY, without a back-up plan, and parlayed his personal success into a full-time job as a filmmaker for ConvertKit. Henry has a ton of personal insight to share about how to be more courageous with your work, and why regularly taking imperfect action is the key to developing your creative business.
Henry Thong is an internationally-recognized documentary filmmaker. His original series Makers Who Inspire has amassed over 1.85 million views, and has been recognized and awarded in America, Australia, Europe and Africa. Henry has also worked with like-minded brands and produced film and video content in Australia, Singapore and the United States for the likes of ConvertKit, Bright Trip, Adam Liaw, and ABC Australia. As a dedicated documentarian, Henry believes the world is an interesting enough place without having to create new ones. He has an avid interest in the creative process and is passionate about telling the stories of artists.
https://www.youtube.com/c/henrythong
https://www.instagram.com/henryzw/
http://www.twitter.com/henryzw
https://www.facebook.com/HenryThongFilm/
https://creatorsessions.convertkit.com/with/henry-thong
On this episode, I’m joined by fellow business strategist and courage coach, Shawn Fink, for a wide-ranging and empathetic conversation about the ****math you need to take control of your creative business. Shawn explains the importance of releasing your fears around business math, and having the courage to achieve your revenue goals. And I reveal how simple math can help you diagnose and close an income gap, design your business, and set yourself up for success. We know business math can be scary, especially for creatives, but we’ve got you covered.
Shawn Fink is a Brave Business Coach for wholehearted entrepreneurs who are ready to upgrade your confidence, your cash and your commitments to doing good in this world. She works with CEOs and Founders by offering private, personalized business and visibility strategy, support and accountability and fierce courage coaching and capacity planning so you follow through on your Brave Yes Vision and Intentions.
“Am I a failure for not making enough money with my creative work?”
“Self-actualization is not more important than feeding yourself.”
In this episode, Tara McMullin helps us understand why solving for your needs first is essential to running any creative business (with your humanity intact).
Tara is a writer, podcaster, and producer who used to be a business strategist (among many other things). But in late 2021, she pivoted to focus on her creative work. On this episode, we discuss Tara’s debut book, What Works: A Comprehensive Framework To Change The Way We Approach Goal Setting. Plus: how and why she left her successful coaching and membership business to be a writer.
Tara McMullin is a writer, podcaster, and producer. For over 13 years, she has studied small business owners—how they live, how they work, what influences them, and what they hope for the future. She’s the host of What Works, a podcast about navigating the 21st-century economy with your humanity intact.
Tara is also co-founder of YellowHouse.Media, a boutique podcast production company. Her work has been featured in Fast Company, The Startup, The Muse, and The Huffington Post. Her first book, What Works: A Comprehensive Framework To Change The Way We Approach Goal Setting, will be released in November.
https://www.whatworkspodcast.com/
Sarah Von Bargen was a highly productive blogger for 14 years, showed up constantly on Instagram, and had years of success on Pinterest.
Sarah also ran several online courses where she helped thousands of people learn to make small, but significant changes to improve their lives.
Using a strategic approach to happiness, Sarah recently mapped out a huge transformation in her own life, pivoting from online internet personality to digital marketing consultant.
On this episode, I’ll dig into what inspired Sarah’s pivot, her methodology for designing a sustainable life, and how she implemented those changes.
More from this episode…
About Sarah
Sarah Von Bargen has consulted, strategized, and ghostwritten for hundreds of companies, bloggers, and entrepreneurs. Her clients include fashion labels, authors, life coaches, photographers, restaurants, psychologists, interior designers, and people who wouldn’t want you to know they have a ghostwriter. She’s written three ebooks, an e-course, produced and sold four calendars, and has a literary agent and an app in the works.
Connect with Sarah
https://instagram.com/yesandyesblog
https://www.pinterest.com/yesandyesblog
https://www.facebook.com/yesandyesblog
Additional links
How To Figure Out What Makes You Happy (so you can do more of it)
NYT bestselling author Oliver Burkeman has more than a decade of experience discussing topics like productivity, procrastination, and anxiety in his column for The Guardian newspaper, This Column Will Change Your Life. On this episode, Oliver talks about his game-changing new book, Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management For Mortals, his career path, how he came into the role of productivity expert, and the freedom of what he calls “a limit-embracing attitude.”
Oliver Burkeman’s bi-monthly newsletter: https://www.oliverburkeman.com/the-imperfectionist
https://www.oliverburkeman.com/
https://twitter.com/oliverburkeman
Want to get things done? Stop thinking, start doing | Oliver Burkeman - The Guardian
Why it pays to cut yourself some slack | Oliver Burkeman - The Guardian
Your new superpower: NOT trying to do everything | Jessica Abel
Endless to-do list? Here’s how not to waste your life | Oliver Burkeman - FT
Austin Kleon is the New York Times bestselling author of a trilogy of books about creativity in the digital age: Steal Like An Artist, Show Your Work!, and Keep Going. Before all of that, he'd been a librarian, a web designer, and an advertising copywriter. Discover Austin’s path to becoming a famous author, how he successfully navigated that pivot, and the vast web of influences that inspire his creative work and daily life.
More from the episode…
About Austin Kleon
Austin Kleon is the New York Times bestselling author of a trilogy of illustrated books about creativity in the digital age: Steal Like An Artist, Show Your Work!, and Keep Going. He’s also the author of Newspaper Blackout, a collection of poems made by redacting the newspaper with a permanent marker. His books have been translated into dozens of languages and have sold over a million copies worldwide. He lives in Austin, Texas, with his wife and sons.
Connect with Austin
Links from the episode
Quiet: The power of introverts a world that won’t stop talking
Alison Bechdel is an award-winning cartoonist best known for her long-running comic strip, Dykes to Watch Out For, and her autobiographical graphic novel-turned-play, Fun Home: A Family Tragicomic. Discover the inspiration behind Alison’s most recent book, The Secret to to Superhuman Strength, how she’s learning to create healthy relationships with both her work and the humans in her life, and the impact of scarcity on her creative output.
More from the episode
https://dykestowatchoutfor.com/
https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-secret-to-superhuman-strength-alison-bechdel/15412143
https://twitter.com/alisonbechdel
https://www.instagram.com/alisonbechdel/
https://jessicaabel.com/visual-scripting-using-indesign-to-write-comics/
Breaking into a creative field, whether you choose to be self-employed or not, can really leave you feeling like you're up the creek without a paddle. Who are you supposed to talk to, and when? Also, where do you find them? What are you supposed to do in the meantime until things...happen? And once you start doing that thing, how you do know when to stop?
We talked about it all at this panel discussion I moderated with three dynamic young artists, Brendan Keen, Mariel Capanna, and Brittany Bennett, about navigating the difficult transition from school to the working world. Each of them is following a unique path, and has tons to share about what they did wrong...and right!
About our guests
https://www.brendankeenstudio.com/
Brendan Keen is an artist and fabricator currently based in West Philadelphia. He was a transfer student at PAFA, where he majored in sculpture. He graduated with a BFA 2012, and was awarded the William Emlen Cresson Memorial Travel scholarship, which meant he stayed a fifth year at PAFA and received a certificate in 2013.
When he finished school, he joined the West Philadelphia-based arts collaborative studio and workshop, the Philadelphia Traction Company. Along with the other artists at Traction, he exhibited his sculpture and collaborative works in Philadelphia and San Francisco.
For the past eight years Brendan has worked full time as a self-employed Artist and fabricator, creating sculptural installations for public and private clients, including the Logan hotel, the W hotel, the Discovery Center, and private residences.
In between jobs, Brendan travels whenever possible, including across Western Europe and around Iceland via bicycle, and most recently across the U.S. in a DIY sprinter camper van.
Mariel Capanna is a fine artist specializing in fresco who graduated with a BFA from PAFA 2012, and she was awarded the William Emlen Cresson Memorial Travel scholarship, which means she spent an extra year at PAFA and was awarded a certificate in 2013.
She received her MFA from Yale School of Art in 2020. She attended Skowhegan School of Painting and Sculpture in 2017.
She’s exhibited many places, including Adams and Ollman (Portland), Central Park (Los Angeles), Gross McCleaf Gallery (Philadelphia), and Good Weather (North Little Rock), COOP (Nashville) and at the Bowtie Project (Los Angeles).
And has been the recipient of numerous residencies and fellowships (in addition to the Cresson): the 2019 Robert Schoelkopf Memorial Traveling Fellowship Recipient, the 2018 Haverford College VCAM Philadelphia Artist-in-Residence, a 2016 Tacony LAB Artist-in-Residence, a 2014 Independence Foundation Visual Arts Fellow, the Guapamacátaro Arts & Ecology Residency and The Mountain School of Art in 2016.
Mariel currently serves as a Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow in Studio Art at Williams College, and a Fresco Instructor at Skowhegan School of Painting and Sculpture.
Her ongoing project Little Stone, Open Home, with Good Weather is a long-term and perpetually changing fresco in a single-car garage in North Little Rock, Arkansas.
https://bennettbc.wixsite.com/rad-river
https://www.streamstudioschop.com/
https://www.brittanycbennett.com/
Brittany Bennett is a medical illustrator who graduated from the joint PAFA/PENN program in 2014. At PAFA, Brittany focused on academic oil painting and graphite drawing. Her work from this time is the result of meticulous observation of textures in nature and a celebration of details.
After graduating, she completed a graduate program for Medical and Biological Illustration at Johns Hopkins.
She currently works at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP), where half her week is in Stream Studios servicing the hospital network at large, and the other half she runs RIVER: a medical illustration service just for the Radiology Department.
She is an artist with training in biology, anatomy, and visual communication who creates didactic illustrations and other visual aids. Brittany works with medical professionals at CHOP to produce patient education materials, figures for scientific literature, illustrated surgical training guides, 3D anatomical models, and more.
Gene Luen Yang is a prolific cartoonist whose personal work is deeply rooted in the Chinese-American experience. He’s best known for his original graphic novel American Born Chinese, and his work with franchise stories such as Superman and Avatar: The Last Airbender. Hear how Gene went from being a computer engineer and high school teacher to full-time cartoonist and recipient of a MacArthur “genius” grant.
More from the episode
About Gene Luen Yang
Gene Luen Yang writes, and sometimes draws, comic books and graphic novels. As the Library of Congress’ fifth National Ambassador for Young People’s Literature, he advocates for the importance of reading, especially reading diversely. American Born Chinese, his first graphic novel from First Second Books, was a National Book Award finalist, as well as the winner of the Printz Award and an Eisner Award.
His two-volume graphic novel Boxers & Saints won the L.A. Times Book Prize and was a National Book Award Finalist. His other works include Secret Coders (with Mike Holmes), The Shadow Hero (with Sonny Liew), Superman from DC Comics (with various artists), and the Avatar: The Last Airbender series from Dark Horse Comics (with Gurihiru).
In 2016, he was named a MacArthur Foundation Fellow. His most recent books are Dragon Hoops from First Second Books and Superman Smashes the Klan from DC Comics.
Connect with Gene Luen Yang
https://www.ted.com/speakers/gene_yang
https://twitter.com/geneluenyang?lang=en
https://www.facebook.com/cartoonistgeneluenyang
https://www.instagram.com/geneluenyang/
Additional links
Tomm Moore is an award-winning animator and director, and the co-founder of Cartoon Saloon animation studio in Kilkenny, Ireland. His notable work includes Wolfwalkers, Song of the Sea, and the Secret of Kells, a trilogy of films based on Irish folklore. Discover how Tomm and his partners built Cartoon Saloon from scratch, without any prior business knowledge, in the small city where they grew up.
Over Cartoon Saloon’s history, Tomm has worked as Director, Art Director, Storyboarder, Animator and Illustrator across a range of the studio's projects. Tomm has directed 3 universally successful feature films: The Secret of Kells in 2010 and the spiritual follow-up, Song of the Sea in 2015, and Wolfwalkers in 2020. All three were nominated for Best Animated Feature at the Academy Awards.
His latest feature film Wolfwalkers which he co-directed with Ross Stewart received several prominent critics awards including LAFCA Award and NYFCC Award as well as nominations for a Golden Globe and a Bafta and wins in several categories including Best Director and Best Independent Feature at the 2021 Annie Awards. He is currently working as a producer across several of Cartoon Saloon’s new film and series projects as well as refocusing on his personal art training.
Josh O’Neill is a comics writer and editor, and co-owner of the Philadelphia-based publishing company, Beehive Books. Using Kickstarter, Josh and his business partner Maëlle Doliveux, publish books and literary objects too risky for traditional publishers. Josh shares what inspired him to pursue publishing, and how crowdfunding allows Beehive to create art that’s for and by their community.
More from the episode
About Beehive Books
Beehive Books is a small press imprint founded by artist and designer Maëlle Doliveux and writer and editor Josh O'Neill, formerly of Locust Moon Press. They are a boutique company committed to producing book art editions of distinctive literary and pictorial works with singular design sensibilities, the highest production values, and a special emphasis on comics and graphic art.
Additional links:
Challenging the dominant culture: intent vs. interpretation with Ronald Wimberly
In 2016, Jenna Weiss-Berman quit her job and decided to launch her own podcast company a month before her first child was born. It was an almost immediate success, and Pineapple Street Studios never took an outside investment. Jenna explains what prompted her risky career leap, and how she taught herself to run a business—on her own terms.
More from the episode…
About Jenna Weiss-Berman
Jenna is the co-founder of Pineapple Street Studios. After almost a decade working in public radio on such shows as The Moth and StoryCorps, Jenna started the podcast department at BuzzFeed and created Another Round and Women of the Hour with Lena Dunham. She currently sits on the advisory board of The Moth.
Additional links: